俺也弹阿尔罕伯拉宫的回忆

cyberninja

俺也弹弹阿尔罕伯拉宫的回忆
好久没弹了, 也没有专门怎么练过轮指, 前天有时间匆忙录了一遍(只有一遍的时间....)
俺弹琴技术比较差, 只是phrasing自己作了处理, 大家砸砖吧....


下载http://members.shaw.ca/mingweb/mp3/Tarrega_Recuerdos_de_la_alhambra.mp3

吉他怪手

斑竹大人高手也!是俺学习的好榜样.

luorz

好听,顶

吴俊霖

请问,这个属于几年功力呢??:) :) :) :)

[ 本帖最后由 吴俊霖 于 2007-4-3 17:14 编辑 ]

艾嘉的吉他

厉害的呀！除了开头时节奏有一点点不稳～真和我听的mp3里差不多咧～太强了啊！！

浔阳情

版主,您好! 我反复听了您的<回忆> 真的太棒了! 高手配名琴,我想知道您用的琴是甚摸品牌型号. 真希望向您请教技艺,期望您能不吝赐教.谢谢您!

cyberninja

这首乐曲是一年前开始恢复弹琴时和爱的罗曼斯一起弹的, 当时觉得以前的轮指发音方法不太好, 旋律音色单薄, 所以就又放了一段时期, 这几天又用改善后的方法再拿起来试试, 觉得现在好一些, 至少旋律的颗粒性得到了一些改善, 但是甲噪还应当继续减少, 尤其是在某些地方失去控制, 噪音会出来. 然后就是乐句的处理, 乐句的处理其实受Segovia/杨MM的影响.
至于速度, 标准速度是120, 但是现代的演奏家们一都般放慢弹, 更有意境. 俺以前弹快过, 但效果并不好.
个人听过不少上传的阿尔罕伯拉宫的回忆, 觉得很多国内的演奏者轮指均匀性还可以, 至少比俺强, 但是可能是由于采取了靠指甲尖轻触弦的缘故吧, 高音声音单薄, 手指缺乏独立性混在一起, 特别是加了混响后效果更糟糕. 其实轮指除了均匀性外, 颗粒性, 饱满性, 和清晰性都非常重要.

关于琴, 是Ramirez R2, 比较难控制的练习琴(不过动态范围和表现音乐情绪的能力比较好). 弦是半年还没换的D'Addario EJ46LP. 录音时没有时间, 只演奏了一遍, 没有用laptop, desktop电脑风扇的噪音也录进去了.

[ 本帖最后由 cyberninja 于 2007-4-4 07:49 编辑 ]

binwu524

强，向你学习！！！

flli883

我把楼主的回忆和罗梅罗的一起让别人听,结果别人说楼主的好听啊,原因是楼主的旋律清晰,节奏稳定,而罗的听起来说是没我弹的好,真是狂晕啊. 对于一个普通的人,古典吉它到底意味什么?

cyberninja

原帖由 flli883 于 2007-4-4 12:23 发表
我把楼主的回忆和罗梅罗的一起让别人听,结果别人说楼主的好听啊,原因是楼主的旋律清晰,节奏稳定,而罗的听起来说是没我弹的好,真是狂晕啊. 对于一个普通的人,古典吉它到底意味什么?

俺有自知之明, Pepe可是大师...

我听过Pepe的现场, 和他主页上的录像有区别, 只说技巧的话, Pepe的tremolo基本上和Segovia/Yepes等的传统方法一样, 主要是靠指甲轻触出来的, 这和Sharon Isbin, Ana Vidovic, 杨MM她们靠指肉指甲同时触弦的音色是不一样的. 所以虽然均匀, 但缺乏颗粒感和清晰.

当然, 对这些big names俺只有佩服的份.

sands

听了~  个人觉得：节奏中间有些许快慢顿挫，能否以整体速度放慢些演奏？
杂音能够消除会更好。指甲抛的不光？ 还是形状问题？:hug:

cyberninja

原帖由 sands 于 2007-4-4 16:40 发表
听了~  个人觉得：节奏中间有些许快慢顿挫，能否以整体速度放慢些演奏？
杂音能够消除会更好。指甲抛的不光？ 还是形状问题？:hug:

谢谢建议.

速度, 节奏, 大体的phrasing应该没有太大问题, 但是有一两个phrase的结束比较突然, 个人觉得整体速度不宜再慢了(Tarrega的原速是120...). 如果当时有时间录几遍会整体感会更好.

指甲显然不是最佳状态, 嫌长了, 俺其实没什么时间弹琴, 三四天才修一下指甲, 也没有抛光, 说到这里就不好意思说下去了.....其实主要还是和控制有关, 下次有机会更好地控制右手再弹吧.

[ 本帖最后由 cyberninja 于 2007-4-4 17:06 编辑 ]

自晓三尉

有感情，好~

cyberninja

另外一个论坛上的评论: 来自德国的网友Ruphus也提出了他的建议和想法, 转贴如下, 俺觉得不少地方都值得大家注意:

It has been a pleasure to listen too.

Great timing and a great plea for restroke.

Commonly with many players you hear too much plain nail. This was one of the seldom times where I heard a tad too much flesh instead. Certainly better than too much nail.

Definitly restroke is the technique to learn. It is the superior technique, about always preferable in sound and separation. And what you can play with restroke you can play easily with freestroke, but not the other way around.

A couple of months ago I was talking to a classical student who was convinced that the very most tremolo in classical pieces was meant to be reststroke by composers. He also showed me with a couple of sheets how tremolo was written for apoyando.

I remarked that many notations might not be copied 1:1, but over time might be altered by publishers, still didn&#180;t oppose the idea as I&#180;d think indeed, restroke fits best most of the times.

If I may suggest: I think that you have a tad too much flesh because the finger resting a short moment too long on the string.

I think this might come from too little striking out. Which again might arise from another important point.

The damn extensors.
I have learned that all that was and still is hindering me for much too long was involvement of extensors.
Took me only decades to understand that ( and years now trying to fix it ).

What happens is that a movement is never pure and efficient when extensors are getting tensioned yet within the flexors action, because of the players mind wanting to prepare for a quick return / or a stop. ( Same problem with many martial arts.)

This triples the effort and introduces heaps of complications, making a huge athlet of the player muscle- and neuron wise while actually sabotaging the desired function.

The only way to nice and effortless technique it seems is to either be so lucky to have a teacher from start who knows this thing, or much longer winded taking the time as an advanced player and focussing on the problem after the info.

The mind must be programmed to inverse its picture of actively bringing back fingers to starting position over the string.

New picture must be that position over the string is the neutral position / the pose, requiring absolutely no neural engagement / no thought to get there, but merely relaxation of the flexor. Letting the flexor go will bring the finger back to null all by itself, provided the hand / wrist / lower arm pose is maintained correctly.

Once it has been reached to that all you have is the pure flexor action the fingering gains reserve in time, radius, strength and precision.

I think that in your tremolo might be a little bit too less striking out, resulting of your preparation for active return.

But it mustn&#180;t be. Could also you be you only need to put a bit more angle into the finger - palm joint and hit with a bit more towards fingertip.

I hope what I say doesn&#180;t sound like a bad critique as i really liked your playing a lot. Just mentoned the above in case it could help with "mind sculpting", if not you maybe other peeps who could profit from thelike detail.

Because it is not as much about physiology as it is about knowledge and establishment of pictures in mind.

= Give Pepe Romero a seals fin and he will still be playing great. [Big Grin]

Very nice playing, keep on rocking! [Cool]

Ruphus

bigsunmen

弹的很有感觉啊。伴奏音弹的很好，轮指的颗粒性还是差点。不过已经说明斑竹的功力还是很深厚的

酷兽

第一次听到这样的演绎方式，觉得这是相当困难的弹法…
速度的确很快，但旋律不平稳，原本一条完整的旋律被处理成几个小段，情绪起伏不定。
结尾的方式也不合理，弹音乐可以有个人风格但非个人喜好。

无可否认，楼主的程度是水平之上，
全属个人意见，若有得罪之处多多包涵~ :D

cyberninja

原帖由 酷兽 于 2007-4-5 09:14 发表
第一次听到这样的演绎方式，觉得这是相当困难的弹法…
速度的确很快，但旋律不平稳，原本一条完整的旋律被处理成几个小段，情绪起伏不定。
结尾的方式也不合理，弹音乐可以有个人风格但非个人喜好。

无可否 ...

不敢苟同您对乐句和musicality的见解, 但是尊重阁下的看法, 至于是不是第一次听到这样的演绎方式, 其实乐句划分和处理受哪些演奏家的影响, 有的朋友应该听得出来.
Thanks for your comments!

[ 本帖最后由 cyberninja 于 2007-4-5 12:02 编辑 ]

ddx68

我感觉这是cyberninja 版主弹得最好的一首曲子.

gtlover

总感觉cyberninja的音乐就是能打动人！

酷兽

原帖由 cyberninja 于 2007-4-5 11:56 发表

不敢苟同您对乐句和musicality的见解, 但是尊重阁下的看法, 至于是不是第一次听到这样的演绎方式, 其实乐句划分和处理受哪些演奏家的影响, 有的朋友应该听得出来.
Thanks for your comments!

恕我再请教问题，您这样的处理方式是受了哪些演奏家的影响，以及他们弹的哪些曲子？
纯粹讨教而已… :D

宁波音乐学社

只有弹了一遍就OK了; 我感觉cyberninja 版主弹得好牛!:Q :Q

cyberninja

过奖了, 俺的技术其实不是很好，所有的录音基本上只有一遍机会的原因是: 很难抽出完整时间, 不象上网, 可以一边聊天一边忙别的.

古典√王子

我啥也不想说了！我要去练琴去了。受刺激了！最后还想问问楼主，你的“何塞 拉米雷斯”R2的琴实在是太棒了 需要多少钱才可以买的到啊？？我也想拥有一把这样的名琴！！！！

LifeofMusic

喜欢这首曲，经常临睡前听它入眠，斑竹弹得好有感情，杂音多点，回复完毕

qbz

不错。冒昧说一句：速度再从容些，不能有“赶”的感觉。。。

cyberninja

现在轮指有了新体会后, 就觉得这个录音的杂音无法忍受了.....唉

19690526

:Q :Q :kiss: :kiss: