riffermeister
Member
Member # 13122
|  posted 06-11-2007 07:01 PM      I know this is a pretty basic question, but how do you tell thedifference? I can easily see differences in the extreme cases (usuallymuch straighter grain for Indian, for example), but what about thosecases where the overt grain and color characteristics don't give itaway? What are the definitive distinguishing features?
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riffermeister
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Member # 13122
| posted 06-11-2007 07:08 PM as an example, I look at ths picture and say......uh......not sure!
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jdd
Member
Member # 6497
| posted 06-11-2007 07:15 PM bz to me... Posts: 2447 | From: Japan | Registered: Jul 2002 | |
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David LaPlante
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Member # 19852
| posted 06-11-2007 07:26 PM  Judging from the color alone can be deceptive. An older amber coloredfinish can add enough reddish tint to confuse the issue especially ifthe wood is Indian and has oxidized to a browner (rather than purplish)hue.
Morereliable I think is texture. There is a fine even texture in Brazilianrosewood where Indian can be "furrier" or "hairy" insofar as texture isconcerned.
Of course there are features in Brazilian rosewoodnever found in Indian. "Spider webbing" in blacks and greys is one andusually a dead give away for Brazilian and of course its easy to spotthat and make the ID.
Straight perfectly quartered Brazilian israre today but not so in the past so on a Vintage guitar one cannotcount on the quality of the cut to help with the determination.
Thebit of center figure in the pic is not characteristic of Indianrosewood and it looks as though something else is going on with thewood here as in the filler has turned a light color.
It could be D.Nigra (Brazilian) but also could be D. Swietiana (Amazonian) which isalso from Brazil but not Brazilian rosewood.
Confusing huh?.......... Posts: 259 | From: Albany New York | Registered: Sep 2006 | |
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riffermeister
Member
Member # 13122
| posted 06-12-2007 02:52 AM David, yes, the figuring of the wood near the center makes me think Bz,but elsewhere the grain pattern looks more like In to me. What is"spider webbing"? Cross-grain structures like the term "silking" usedto describe spruce?
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aarongreen
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Member # 9716
| posted 06-12-2007 03:36 AM Spiderwebbing is silica deposits in the wood that look like fine(sometimes bold) black lines. These lines often fray off into patternsthat are somwhat reminicent of...drumroll please....spider webbing.Didn't see that coming did you? 
Itsvery pretty but can be a bear to work with when bending sides. I havebeen told that these deposits are the tree's natural pesticide to wardoff wood eating critters. Other woods that show spiderwebbing likefigure are Madagascar rosewood and Ziricote.
In my experienceI can't say that it has anything to do with the acoustic properites ofthe wood, much like bearclaw it is what it is and thats about it. Posts: 680 | From: Waltham MA USA | Registered: Apr 2003 | |
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guitharsis
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Member # 6824
| posted 06-12-2007 04:41 AM Besides the gorgeous looks, also love the scent of Brazilian. Not to mention the wonderful sound . . . Posts: 423 | Registered: Aug 2002 | |
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edward2
Member
Member # 17455
| posted 06-12-2007 05:24 AM I always thought Brazilian was chocolate in color and had pronounced figuration thus:
WhileIndian was brown to reddish brown and straight grain. The figuration inthe Braz. might be considered a flaw usually. Isn't it where a branchjoined the tree? Posts: 674 | From: new Jersey | Registered: Dec 2005 | |
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Rick Waugh
Member
Member # 15225
| posted 06-12-2007 05:29 AM Don't know much about thedifference between braz and indian, but that figuration is notnecessarily indicative of where a branched joined a tree, but apossibility of wood that has not been quarter sawn. Quarter sawingcreates a tight grain, which transmits sound better. Plank cuttingcreates a more beautiful, wildly figured grain in just about any kindof wood, but it not so good for guitars.
But I'm certainly not an expert.
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Posts: 2642 | From: Vancouver, Canada | Registered: Mar 2005 | |
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aarongreen
Member
Member # 9716
| posted 06-12-2007 06:30 AM Actually those are common misconceptions regarding both brazilian andguitar wood in general. Quarter sawn wood exhibits vertical grain,tightness or straightness depend on the wood itself. The photo exampleis flatsawn on the outer edges but that does not mean it isn't a greatset of wood. I have lots of sets that go to flatsawn and they areexcellent. Perfectly quartered is very nice but not the final arbitorin the musical usefullness of a set. Nor in the stability departmenteither, although cracks tend to be easier to deal with in straightgrain wood. Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia Nigra) is a wood withhundreds of subspecies, all are D. Nigra and as such the properties canvary quite a bit, including the color. Red, brown, black, orange evenbits of blue and green are often seen. It is a lovely material and Ialways feel privledged when I work with it. Until it gives me a hardtime, that is. Posts: 680 | From: Waltham MA USA | Registered: Apr 2003 | |
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David LaPlante
Member
Member # 19852
| posted 06-12-2007 07:21 AM Aaron, I agree, I think quartersawn vs. flat sawn wood in general is more of a builder's issue thanone of the consumer (read player).
Indeed there is really no difference between a flat sawn set of Brazilian vs. quarter sawn in the sound department.
A case can be made for quartersawn wood being less likely to "cup" during the bending process which is better for builders.
The final stability of this beautiful wood seems to be equally treacherous whether flat or quartered as well. Posts: 259 | From: Albany New York | Registered: Sep 2006 | |
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riffermeister
Member
Member # 13122
| posted 06-12-2007 04:00 PM quote:Originally posted by aarongreen:
Spiderwebbing is silica deposits in the wood that look like fine(sometimes bold) black lines. These lines often fray off into patternsthat are somwhat reminicent of...drumroll please....spider webbing.Didn't see that coming did you? I was blind sided!!!! 
So if one sees spider webbing then it is not Indian. But does a lack of spider webbing mean that it is not Bz?
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Posts: 2022 | From: near Philly | Registered: Jun 2004 | |
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jfdana
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Member # 18736
| posted 06-12-2007 06:11 PM No Posts: 322 | Registered: Apr 2006 | |
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David Norton
Member
Member # 5872
| posted 06-12-2007 06:32 PM Easy one: wood has memory. So if the guitar sounds more alive and openwhen you are playing Villa-Lobos, Jobim, or Bonfa, then it is Brazilian.
My old Paracho-built Navarro always sounded better when I was playing Ponce instead of Torroba.
DN |
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发表于 2007-6-13 15:00:15
发表于 2007-6-13 18:03:14
