[吉他教师杂志]约翰·威廉斯访谈录（二）

wangjianguo

AP-L：你是如何看待吉他家们的音质（tone production）问题的呢？

JW：这对刚才我们一直在谈论的话题是一个延伸，因为独奏节目单通常是难于演奏的音乐，这个传统产生的影响之一是，吉他老师通常更强调完成整个音符串而不是演奏出每一个音符的真正内涵，这就是我们为什么不从一开始便持续关注音质问题。例如，在4、5和6级，你就可以演奏维拉·罗伯士的前奏曲，而这些前奏曲其实比这些级别水平的作品难得多，但我们却被这个问题搞得举步维艰。

举个用低音弦伴奏而在高音弦演奏的大三度为例，这种例子在朱利亚尼的任何一首简单的吉他作品中都可以找到。如果你听一个吉他家演奏，与一个弦乐三重奏演奏同样的一串音符相比起来，吉他演奏听起来相当的乏味；而在弦乐重奏中，每一个演奏者都会更多地考虑到段落和音色的变化。但由于吉他家粗浅地感觉这是如此简单，因而他们通常所获得的音色都很肤浅，很少甚至没有考虑和音的匹配及音色的对比。尽管知道是这样，但吉他确实存在这种特殊困难，三根高音弦中每一根都有着迥然不同的音色，所以这真是祸福相依呀。

AP-L：作为一个强劲有力的演奏家，你有着令人艳羡的声誉，即你能从这件乐器上取得最大的音量。你如何看待音量和音色之间的对立关系呢？

JW：是的，吉他演奏家通常都有着音量方面的困扰，这不难理解，因为古典吉他是件宁静的乐器；但我认为许多吉他家把响亮和饱满混为一谈了，他们应当着重追求声音品质而不简单而竭力地让声音充满一个大房间——缘于乐音的特性，饱满的音色也是更大声的。让耳朵听起来舒服的，是力度的强弱变化和音乐的音色，而不是音量本身。我很喜欢我的两把弗雷塔（Fleta）老吉他中的一把，是因为它有能力使我表达宽阔的音域。我总留着强劲的指甲，这也有助于达到这一点。实际上，比起带动整个音乐厅的音域来说，吉他的音域能达到的范围小得很多。

AP-L：这是否可以解释，尽管你明显有能力发出丰满强劲的声音，但你仍然使用扩音器？

JW：我感觉到，高灵敏度的扩音器解决了大多数问题，但具有讽刺意味的是，现今的许多制造商在以生产更大声量的乐器为目的。今天，为放大吉他音量，有着各种广泛的设备可供选择；这意味着，即使在一个巨大的礼堂，你也可以心无旁骛地演绎吉他多情、微妙的声音。最终，即使完全是自然发出的，你也可以更满意地演奏出富有音乐性的东西，而不是仅只发出巨大的、不具音乐性的声音。

我知道，对有些吹毛求疵的评论家来说，任何形式的扩音都是音乐异端，但我认为我们必须更上一层楼。对大型音乐厅里的大多数人来说，他们的位置不是听到吉他演奏的最好位置；在理想状态下，如果我们要真正体味吉他完美的音色，就不应该在大音乐厅听，因为在同样是20米（或更多）的距离，听到吉他的声音并不一样。这是因为，古典吉他局部地说是件打击乐器，而且敲击因素比其动力学和声学成分更多，因此我们所听到的并不是真正的吉他声音。所以最重要的，不是你能否能在悉尼歌剧院后排听到吉他声音，而是你所听到的是什么东西。我发现扩音器在这方面确实有用，但显然需要表现良好的扩音器才行。

AP-L：几年前，你转而使用格雷格·斯摩曼的吉他，你能告诉我们这件事及其原因吗？因为我认为这件事让很多人大吃一惊，你竟然放弃了弹奏这么多年的弗雷塔吉他。

JW：十一、二年前，我第一次遇见格雷格，当时他还在和比特·比芬一起制作吉他。他们向我展示了两把亲自制作的吉他，质量不错但算不上上乘之作。我弹了自己的弗雷塔吉他，向他们展现我从该吉他上所能演绎的声音。之后，格雷格又和我联系，说他就吉他问题想过来和我进行另一番谈话。在那次谈话期间，格雷格告诉我，他喜欢弗雷塔吉他的声音，但想知道假如可能的话，我最想在哪方面改善那把吉他的声音。我认为那是种很了不起的态度，因为不象一些耍小聪明的笨蛋那样在费力不讨好地说：“看！我这是一把伟大的吉他，试试看！”我经常发现，在制造商的请求下你尝试了一下一把他们新出炉的吉他，之后你向他们说出自己的看法，指陈其优劣，他们便开始和你争论，费气八力地想说服你，他们的吉他事实上比你说的要好。

格雷格从一开始便给了我很深的印象，因为他总是乐于倾听。我告诉他，我喜欢他制作的吉他的共鸣；因为有时我发现弗雷塔吉他敲击味太重，尤其在高音弦上。自那以后不久，我和天空乐队回来搞演出，格雷格带着两把吉他来到宾馆，看望我和科文·彼克。到这种地步，格雷格仍然没有假想我会放弃弗雷塔吉他，他只是想听听我们的意见和看法。科文·比克立刻喜欢上了其中的一把，至今仍然留着。另外一把吉他则是格雷格从扔到四周的一些老式木材中制作的，我偏爱这一把，用它灌制了两张唱片。这把吉他的共鸣板上有一道相当模式化的斑纹。我们的热诚结交从此开始。

AP-L：格雷格·斯摩曼当时是使用炭化纤维作支撑架（using the carbon fiber bracing）吗？

JW：不是，仅是用网格作支撑（the grid strutting），那个时期没有炭化纤维。我感受到格雷格吉他的响度是其音乐品质的副产品，而不是音乐品质本身的终结。格雷格在声音上取得的一个主要变化是对弗雷塔吉他的改善，当音量增加或衰减时，声音并不随之变化。弗雷塔吉他总是倾向于当音量更高时，强调更多的打击声音，这通常是传统吉他设计的一个缺陷，从根本上说是一种非音乐性的东西。当然，所有的乐器声音在音量增加时都会有所变化，但在吉他上这会变得紊乱不协调起来，就象在调节高保真设备时所听到的扭曲一样。其底线（The bottom line）是，当你用劲地演奏传统的吉他曲（比如巴赫恰空和阿尔贝尼兹的作品）时，你取得的是更多的投掷敲打声，更少的真实音乐声音。

应当说，我看到过许多其他的优秀制作家打造的吉他，它们都令人爱不释手，但是它们之中没有一件解决了格雷格解决的问题。对象我这样的独奏家和合奏家来说，这已经是至关紧要的考虑因素了。我已从格雷格那里弄到了许多吉他，最近的一把是去年九月发送过来的，确实是把了不起的乐器。关于格雷格的事情，我相信说这些没有对他的任何不敬，他一直在实验着，在深入学习着，比如设法搞清楚不同重量的木材的特性。而且最重要的一点是，他知道他都在做些什么，以及为什么这样做。

我也注意到，格雷格对于网格支撑法非常公开，他已经就此参加了不少研讨会；他并没有把这些知识独为己有，这是我非常钦佩的，因为吉他寿命不象小提琴那么持久。他这项壮举的好处最终会被人们广泛地察觉到的，这一点很伟大。我知道有的吉他制作家保守得令人难以置信，但谢天谢地格雷格不是那种人，我想这可反映他有着求知的头脑、对成败的开诚布公，以及积极适应变化的意愿。

象任何有创造力的人一样，格雷格有时对他最新制作的吉他心存疑问。例如，去年我在布里斯班[澳大利亚东部港市]见到他时，他给我展示了两把新吉他，我和朱利安·拜占廷把我们的吉他与之比较了一下。格雷格觉得，这两把新吉他的音色也许太灰暗了，但我认为是胃口上的问题。因为现在身处纽约的本·维德雷也喜欢那种音色，他对那把吉他热爱倍至，一直在纽约州的吉他舞台上展示那把吉他，获得了热烈的反响；他和他演奏长笛的夫人在进行吉他、长笛二重奏时，发觉两者异常和谐。

你知道，朱利安·布里姆和我有着迥然不同的音乐风格，从而在吉他上的品位也相去甚远。但是，他对格雷格的吉他印象很深，尤其是声音持久和有效听程大，对微弱的触弦有着灵敏的反应度。这不是说我们可以在下星期的音乐会上看到朱利安演奏那把吉他，当时我确实知道朱利安对格雷格的吉他很感冒。

wangjianguo

第一部分主要谈吉他比赛、吉他演奏及教学方面的东西；本部分主要谈吉他硬件（扩音器、吉他制作）方面的东西，仍然有不少专业性词汇捉摸不透，欢迎各位大侠不吝赐教呀，尤其是小麦、哈哈、PAOPAO、木心你们啊。

第三部分，将谈到恰空、和与老塞的关系等，明天见。

小麦吉他

建国兄，辛苦了！还没有时间拜读！

wangjianguo

小麦，先看看第一行中的词呀，我还是没有搞定如何翻译才对：（

wangjianguo

地址：http://musicteachermag.com/html/article02_john_williams.html

本部分原文：

AP-L: What do you think about the problems of tone production for guitarists?

JW:  I think it's an extension of what we've just been talking about because one of the effects of having a tradition of solo repertoire, which is often music which is difficult to play, is that more emphasis is often put by a teacher on getting through the notes rather than playing the real substance of each note, and that's a reason why we don't concentrate continually from the beginning on tone production. By Grade 4, 5 and 6, for example, you've got Villa Lobos Preludes, which are much too difficult for those levels, but we're lumbered with that problem.

Take a major third on the top strings with a bass accompaniment, the type of thing you'll find in any simple guitar piece by Giuliani. If you hear a guitarist play it, it will sound fairly dull by comparison with how a string trio would play the same set of notes, where there would be much consideration of the phrasing and tone variation by each player. But because the guitarist finds such a thing superficially very easy to play, very often their approach to tone production is also superficial, with little or no consideration given to voice matching and tonal contrasts, even though the guitar has special difficulties because each of the three top strings has a quite distinct sound, so it's both a blessing and a curse.

AP-L: You have an enviable reputation as a very powerful player, one capable of getting the maximum volume from an instrument - what are your thoughts on volume as opposed to tone?

JW: Yes, it's understandable that guitarists generally have an obsession with volume, because the guitar is a quiet instrument, but I think that many guitarists confuse loudness with fullness; they should seek a focus in their sound rather than simply trying to fill a room - the thing about fullness of sound is that it also louder because of the extra body on the note. It's the range of dynamics and tone in music that make it interesting to the ear, not volume per se. One thing that I loved about one of my two old Fleta guitars, was the ability it gave one to express that wide range of sound. I've always had strong nails, so that has helped too, but the reality is that the dynamic range that the guitar has is much less than the range, which actually carries in a concert hall.

AP-L: Does this explain your use of amplification, despite your obvious ability to produce a full, strong sound?

JW: I feel that subtle amplification overcomes most of these problems, but it seems ironic that many makers are now aiming directly at producing much louder instruments. I feel that the wide range of options available today for amplifying the guitar means that you can focus on the warm, intimate sounds of the guitar even in a large auditorium. The end result will be musically much more satisfying than trying just to produce a large, possibly unmusical, sound output, even if it is totally natural.

I know that to some critics any form of amplification is musical heresy, but I think that we have to go one step further. The guitar played in a large hall is not heard at its loveliest for most people in that hall; ideally, the guitar should not be played in a large hall if we want to experience the full range of its tone, because it doesn't sound the same at a distance of 20 meters or more. This is because it's a partly percussive instrument, and the percussive aspects carry more than its other dynamic and tonal qualities, so what we're hearing is not really a true guitar sound. So it's not whether you can hear a guitar at the back of the Sydney Opera House, but what you hear that counts. I find that amplification helps in that regard, but obviously it has to be well done.

AP-L: You made a switch some years ago to Greg Smallman's guitars. Can you tell us about that and your reasons for it, because I think it shocked a lot of people that you gave up playing Fletas after so long?

JW: I first met Greg when he was still making guitars with Pete Biffen ten or twelve years ago, and they showed me a couple of their guitars which were okay but not great. I played my Fleta for them, and showed them the sort of sound I was getting from it. Later, Greg got in contact again and said he wanted to come and have another chat about guitars. In the course of that conversation, Greg told me that he loved the sound of the Fleta, but wanted to know what aspects of its sound I would like to improve on, assuming that were possible. I thought that was a great attitude, because it wasn't just some smart arse trying to say, "Look, here's a great guitar, try it. Often I have found that after trying out a new guitar at the request of a maker, you give them your opinion, pointing out weak spots as well as good things, and they just start arguing with you, trying to persuade you that it really is a better guitar than it is!

Greg impressed me from the start because he was always willing to listen. I told him that I liked the resonance of his instruments, because I sometimes found the Fletas a little too percussive, especially on the top string. Soon after that I came back for a tour with SKY, and Greg came to the hotel to see Kevin Peek and I with two guitars. At that stage, Greg didn't even presume that I might give up playing the Fleta, so he just wanted to get some comments. Kevin Peek loved one of the guitars, and has still got it. The other guitar was one Greg had fashioned out of some old pieces of wood that he had had lying around, and I particularly liked that guitar and ended up doing a couple of recordings on it; it had a rather stripy pattern in the soundboard. And that's basically where our association started in earnest.

AP-L: Was Greg Smallman using the carbon fiber bracing then?

JW:  No, just the grid strutting, but no carbon fiber at that stage. I feel that the loudness of Greg's guitars is a by-product of their musical qualities rather than an end in itself. One of the main changes in the sound that Greg achieved which is an improvement on the Fleta, is that the sound doesn't change as the volume of the sound increases or decreases. The Fleta always tended to emphasize a more percussive sound at higher volumes, which is a deficiency in the traditional design of the guitar generally, and it is fundamentally an unmusical thing. Of course all instrumental sounds change somewhat as they increase in volume, but with the guitar it is inordinate, like hearing distortion as you turn up the hi-fi. The bottom line is that as you drive the conventional guitar harder, say in the Bach Chaconne or Albeniz, you're getting a lot more plonk and thwack, and a lot less truly musical sound.

I should say that I've seen many other guitars by good makers which were lovely instruments, but none of them solved this problem the way Greg has, and for me as a soloist and ensemble performer that has been a crucial consideration. I've had a number of guitars from Greg and the latest was sent to me last November, which is a great instrument. The thing about Greg, and I'm sure that I'm not doing him any disservice in saying this, is that he is always experimenting and learning further, such as getting to know the properties of woods with different weights. But what's important is that he knows what he's doing with it all and why he's doing it.

I've also noticed that Greg has been very open about the lattice bracing and has given seminars on it; he's not just keeping all the knowledge to himself, which I think is admirable, because guitars don't last like a violin will. So the benefits of his work will be felt very widely in the end, which is great. I know some guitar makers who are incredibly secretive, but thankfully Greg is not one of them, and I think that's reflected in his very enquiring mind, an openness and honesty about his successes and failure, and willingness to adapt and change.

Like any creative person, Greg sometimes has doubts about his latest guitars; for example, when I saw him in Brisbane last year, he showed me two new guitars, and we compared them to mine and Julian Byzantine's. Greg felt that perhaps the sound of the new ones was a little too dark, but I think that's a matter of taste, because Ben Verdery's in New York is also like that, and he loves it. He's been showing it around the guitar scene in the States and getting a very enthusiastic response to it, and finds it blends very well with his wife's flute playing, whom he performs duets with.

As you know, Julian Bream and I have quite different musical personalities and therefore also taste in guitars, but he was enormously impressed by Greg's guitars, especially the sustain and dynamic range, and the fact that they respond so well to even the faintest touch. I don't think that this means we'll be seeing Julian playing one next week in concert, but I know he was very taken with them.

rocket

好文章，建国辛苦了，我顶！

ilovemusic88

感谢建国兄

xh

太棒了！