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[吉他教师杂志]约翰·威廉斯访谈录(三)

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发表于 2003-11-22 22:05:00 | 显示全部楼层

[吉他教师杂志]约翰·威廉斯访谈录(三)

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AP-L:许多人觉得,巴赫的恰空几乎可以作为这些年来你的演奏作品中的一个代表作,你是怎么看待的?

JW:玩笑又开得不小。我切实感觉到,把恰空当作一首吉他作品远胜于把仅把它当作很适合吉他演奏的作品。它确实是音乐演奏名家们一展变奏风格的绝手好戏,因此可以作为独奏家们不失逻辑的选择;我深刻感受到,恰空有着伊比利亚渊源,不论是作为一种舞曲形式还是西班牙风格的协调性;从某种意义上讲,它确实非常具有吉他演奏特性。恰空也是巴赫所写作品中唯一具有如此特性的作品——《歌德堡变奏曲》是对一个主题曲调的系列变奏,而恰空则是一种延长了4小节的巴洛克布鲁斯作品!因此从这个角度上说,恰空又是一部集民间音乐和高雅艺术为一体的混合作品,魅惑醉人而又华丽宏伟,其流行音乐因素强化了作品的魅力而非使作品世俗化(trivialize)。

另外,《恰空》作品中有些部分难度很大,但环顾四下,其实还有许多更难的吉他作品呢。恰空也是一首有价值的技巧性作品,因为其间的高难度部分听起来就觉得很值,吉他音乐作品并不都是这样的。从音乐的角度来说,恰空的色彩异常丰富;在标准巴洛克组曲中,不难发现独立舞曲乐章的那种僵化形式,但恰空不拘泥于此,而是在旋律和节奏的进行中,呈现出精妙绝伦的变化,因此它一直是首演奏起来超级享受的作品。不论练习与否,几乎每周任何一天我都会兴奋地弹起恰空来,即使演奏得不是特别的干净利落,听起来也非常棒;更为甚者,即使我有一段时间没有弹它了,在音乐会的前一分钟,要我决定是否要把它纳入节目时,从来毫无问题。

AP-L:在你的艺术生涯中,你灌制的汗牛充栋的唱片,其中有没有你录制的最喜欢的专集呢?

JW:好,谈到独奏唱片,我可以很自然地说,我对最新录制的作品专集感觉都是最好的,比如“巴洛克专集”和“吉他的精神(Spirit of the Guitar)”。这不是说,我讨厌六十年代录制的阿尔贝尼兹专集;而是感觉现在使用斯摩曼吉他,我的状态更佳了;在两三年之内,我会重新录制更多的西班牙音乐,比如格拉那多斯的华尔兹诗意圆舞曲。我觉得最喜欢的那些老唱片也在通过种种渠道进行协作努力之中,比如与马拉·法兰多雷(Maria Farandouri)合作Theodorakis、与克利欧·莱因合作的专集等等。另外,由于感情方面的原因,我仍然很喜欢《伦敦之街》。

AP-L:吉他家们通常会谈到他们产生的影响,以及有助于塑造他们的声音及风格的其他吉他家或音乐家。在这方面,除了塞戈维亚之外,对你产生重要影响的人都有谁呢?

JW:我一直热爱小提琴演奏,因此在这个方面如果说我有被小提琴家所影响的话,那就是阿兰·拉弗德(Alan Loveday),在二十世纪50年代晚期时他和我一起在皇家学院就读,在巴洛克演奏风格上我深受他影响。我还从大键琴演奏家拉法尔·普亚娜(Rafael Puyana)那里学到很多象样的东西,比如斯卡拉蒂(Scarlatti)、巴赫和法国音乐等。伊扎克·保曼(Itzak Perlman)是我特别喜欢的小提琴演奏家,我还和他录过一张唱片。

我对这件事深有感触,即一个人演奏的方式比其演奏方式是否有来历更重要。例如,如果你听到黑费兹或保曼(Heifetz or PerIman)在演奏巴赫,那么你会争议他们不是在演奏真正的巴洛克风格,但是他们的演奏确实比干巴巴的毫无差错的原汁原味的演奏更耐听。就巴洛克音乐而言,当今存在着一些对巴洛克音乐的电子乐器演奏,要不受其感染和影响是很难的。与几年前庸俗得令人厌烦的作品相比,对巴洛克音乐进行的润色性的诠释已经有了大大的进步。

AP-L:几年前,乔杰·克林顿(George Clinton)关于塞戈维亚的书中,在你的访谈录中字里行间好象透露着你和塞戈维亚的紧张关系。你能就此给我们点启发开导吗?

JW:是的,这一直是真实的。随着岁月流逝,这件事传得越来越多了,再谈到它时我也有了更多的自信。坦诚说来,我觉得自己很有必要把我对塞戈维亚的保留意见公开出来。自二十世纪50年代中期开始,我们之间就存在着鸿沟,但以前一切都是隐藏在毕恭毕敬的陈词之中。塞戈维亚在瑞士组织了(或者说是参与组织了)一场吉他比赛,要求我参加。那时候,我本已是情理之中的获胜者了,因此这个主意对我很有吸引力。但我父亲竭力反对,部分是因为我还在上学,部分是因为我太年轻了;然而我母亲却全力支持我参赛。因此,最后的决定权实际上就掌握我手中了。最终的结果,我决定不参加,比赛,不久以后就接到塞戈维亚打来的一个勃然大怒的电话,电话中他完全用西班牙语辱骂我,我的祖宗八代都给操翻了。

无论如何,我们就那件事达成了和解,但是随后的几年,当他在锡耶纳[意大利中部城市]夏季学校出现时,我们之间就一直就像有颗紧张的钉子一般。通常,我和阿利罗·戴兹(Alirio Diaz)这样的演奏家都会彼此切磋,因为塞戈维亚大都不在场。但是,当塞戈维亚出现时,气氛就紧张起来。正如我在过去其他场合说过,他主要是通过范例进行教学——这里四小节,那里四小节,从中你得满身不舒服地模仿他——我假想的是,我在皇家音乐学院进行训练,应该是更为系统和结构化地学习音乐,因此有时很难适应他如此个别化的教学风格。

讲得很多了,当然话说回来,作为一个吉他演奏家和一个人,塞戈维亚对我以及给我造成的影响有许多正面因素的。如果象我一样如此面对面的交往,你也会情不自禁地受到他、受到他的声音的影响。他特别慷慨大方,大多数时候脾气非常温和。但如果要设想我们之间不存在任何隔膜(尤其他如今已经仙逝)这也是不对的,因为我们之间通常存在着分歧,尤其在音乐上。随着时光流逝,我发现我的解释方法也越来越直接,越来越线性。而塞戈维亚经常被Hauser美丽而洪亮的音乐特点所影响,这并不适合我的个性和音乐爱好,不论是独奏还是室内乐方面的。另外,塞戈维亚与其他伟大的独奏家,象克莱斯勒和海费兹等出现同一时代,有人会争辩说,他们那一时代的音乐过时了,可能如此,但是你不能说他们的音乐是错的,恰恰相反,你不可能改变这个事实,即他们那个时代的音乐是从塞戈维亚和他的声音开始的。如果不是因为他的话,我们今天都不会坐在这儿了。



 楼主| 发表于 2003-11-22 22:06:00 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国抖音
呵呵,一鼓作气,把它完成算了,错误之处再慢慢改。
发表于 2003-11-23 01:11:00 | 显示全部楼层
GC视频号
您也可以把英文贴出来,万分感谢
 楼主| 发表于 2003-11-23 07:13:00 | 显示全部楼层
买琴买鼓,就找魔菇
地址:http://musicteachermag.com/html/article02_john_williams.html

本部分原文:

AP-L: A lot of people feel that the Bach Chaconne has been almost a signature piece of yours over the years. How do you view it?

JW: Funnily enough, I do feel it very much as a guitar piece rather than just a piece that works well on the guitar. Apart from the fact that it is a tour de force of the virtuoso variation style, and therefore a logical choice for a soloist, I very much feel its Iberian origins, both as a dance form and its Spanish style harmonies, and that's certainly very guitaristic in a sense. It's also the only one of its kind that Bach wrote - the Goldberg Variations were a set of variations on a tune, whereas the Chaconne is kind of an extended 4 bar baroque blues! So in that sense, it has a fascinating and magnificent mixture of folk music and high art, and the popular element in it strengthens the piece rather than trivializes it.

Also, although there are difficult sections in it, there are more difficult guitar pieces around. It's a rewarding piece technically, because difficult parts sound like they're worth it, which is not always the case with guitar music. From a musical point of view, it's also very colorful because it doesn't have the rigid formality of separate dance movements that you find in the normal baroque suite, but rather it moves along with a great variety in its melodic and rhythmic aspects, so its always a very enjoyable piece to play. I would cheerfully pick up the Chaconne almost any day of the week whether I'd practiced or not, because even if it wasn't particularly clean, it would always sound good, and I'd never have a problem in deciding to include it in a concert program at the last minute, even if I haven't played it in a while.

AP-L: Of all the prolific recordings you've done through your career, do you have any favorite albums you've recorded?

JW: Well, when it comes it solo records, not unnaturally I usually feel best about the ones I've done most recently, like the baroque album and the "Spirit of the Guitar." That doesn't mean I hate what 1 did in the sixties with Albeniz, but I feel I have done it better now on the Smallman; I will be re-recording more Spanish music in a couple more years like Granados' Valses Poeticos. In some ways, the older records I feel fondest of are the collaborative efforts, like the Theodorakis with Maria Farandouri and the albums with Cleo Laine. Also, I still like the "Streets of London," for sentimental reasons.

AP-L: Guitarists generally talk about their "influences", the other guitarists or musicians who helped to shape their sound and style. Who were your main influences in that respect, aside from Segovia?

JW: I have always loved fiddle playing, so if anything I think 1 have been more influenced in some ways by violinists like Alan Loveday who was at the Royal College with me in the late 1950's, especially in the baroque style of playing. I also learned a hell of a lot from Rafael Puyana, the harpsichordist, for things like Scarlatti, Bach and French music. Itzak Perlman is my favorite fiddle player, and I've done a record with him as well.

One thing I feel strongly is that it is the way someone plays is more important than whether it is "authentic" - for example, if you hear Heifetz or PerIman playing Bach, it could be argued that they are not playing in true baroque style, but their playing is far more enjoyable to listen to than a historically correct performance that is as dry as a bone. I think in regard to Baroque music it would be hard not to be impressed and influenced by some of the electrifying performances of baroque music that are around today, and the interpretation of baroque ornamentation has also advanced greatly compared to the boring stuff that was common years ago.

AP-L: Reading between the lines of your interview in George Clinton's book on Segovia some years ago, there seemed to be an edge of tension between you and Segovia. Could you enlighten us on that?

JW: Yes, there always was really, and it has come out more as years have passed and I've felt a little more confident in talking about it. To be honest, I feel it has become necessary for me to become open about what my reservations with Segovia were. It's all very well hiding behind respectful statements, but there was a personal gap between us that began in the mid-1950's. Segovia had organized, or was involved in organizing, a guitar competition in Switzerland and asked me to compete in it. At the time, I would have been the logical winner, so it was an attractive idea. But my father was against it, partly because I was still at school and also because he felt I was still too young. My mother, however, supported the idea of my entering, so in the end it was really left to me to make the decision. As it turned out, 1 decided not to enter, and very soon after received an extremely angry phone call from Segovia, in which he abused me roundly in Spanish and called me all sorts of names of names.

Anyway, we all got over that one, but in the years that followed
there always seemed to be an edge of tension when he was present for Summer School in Siena. Mostly, the players there like Alirio Diaz and myself would teach each other, because Segovia wasn't always there a great deal, but when he did come, it often felt strained. As I've said on other occasions previously, he taught mainly by example - four bars here, four bars there, in which you were meant to imitate him - and I suppose that my training at the Royal College was giving me a more structured and structural approach to learning music, so it was sometimes hard to adapt to his very individual teaching style.

Having said all that, of course there were many positive aspects to Segovia and his influence on me as a guitarist and as a person. You couldn't help being influenced by him and his sound when you were as close to it as I was. And he was extremely generous and usually very sweet tempered most of the time. But it would be wrong, especially now that he is gone, to assume that there were never any difficult moments between us, because occasionally there were, especially musically. As time passed, I found my interpretive approach becoming more direct, more linear, whereas Segovia's was often shaped by the beautiful resonant qualities of his Hauser, which didn't suit either my personality or musical inclinations in either solo or chamber music. Also, Segovia emerged during the age of the other great soloists like Kreisler and Heifetz, and some would argue that their period sound is dated, and it may be, but you can't say its wrong, just different. But you can't change the fact that it all began with Segovia and his sound. We wouldn't be here now if it weren't for him.

发表于 2003-11-23 16:27:00 | 显示全部楼层
翻译此文不仅需要很好的英文基础,也需要丰富的音乐知识。向王建国同志学习、致敬!
 楼主| 发表于 2003-11-23 16:52:00 | 显示全部楼层
千万得有选择地学习,正因为音乐知识不够,所以好多地方还值得商榷!
发表于 2003-11-27 17:00:00 | 显示全部楼层
受益非浅!
谢谢!
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