吉他中国新网址

 找回密码
 注册
搜索
查看: 1407|回复: 16

请教ani网友————

[复制链接]
发表于 2004-4-12 21:45:00 | 显示全部楼层

请教ani网友————

吉他中国微信公众号
您在一个帖子中提醒大家,“。。。(《回忆组曲》)这个曲子是个MILONGA”。
能否请教什么是“MILONGA”?有什么特点?演奏的时候注意什么?
俺没弹过,非常想了解。
热切期待您赐教。
谢谢
 楼主| 发表于 2004-4-12 22:22:00 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国抖音
也请了解这方面常识网友帮忙回答一下。非常感谢。
发表于 2004-4-12 22:26:00 | 显示全部楼层
GC视频号
路过, 不清楚.只是觉得MILONGA好听, 重音胡乱变化.
发表于 2004-4-12 22:40:00 | 显示全部楼层
买琴买鼓,就找魔菇
tango他爸
发表于 2004-4-12 22:43:00 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用popgog在2004-4-12 22:40:00的发言:

tango他爸

老流氓?
发表于 2004-4-12 22:43:00 | 显示全部楼层

!!!


    Milonga-----一种民间歌舞,类似于Jota和flamenco...

   
 楼主| 发表于 2004-4-12 22:45:00 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用孙宏光在2004-4-12 22:43:00的发言:


    Milonga-----一种民间歌舞,类似于Jota和flamenco...
   
非常感谢孙老师。请问他有什么特点?演奏的时候注意些什么?
 楼主| 发表于 2004-4-12 23:04:00 | 显示全部楼层
可能我问得比较笼统,以至于孙老师及各位无法具体回答。我想了想,其实,我就想问问MILONGA节奏型的特点。
发表于 2004-4-12 23:18:00 | 显示全部楼层
节奏型的问题应该问刘天礼老师, 他是专家.
 楼主| 发表于 2004-4-12 23:19:00 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用乐章在2004-4-12 23:18:00的发言:
节奏型的问题应该问刘天礼老师, 他是专家.
哦?嘿嘿
发表于 2004-4-12 23:23:00 | 显示全部楼层
他打节奏全国第一, 弹古典的人差远了.
发表于 2004-4-12 23:45:00 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用乐章在2004-4-12 23:23:00的发言:
他打节奏全国第一, 弹古典的人差远了.

那你干吗不劝他改行去搞打击,没准能成为国际级大师,为国增光。
发表于 2004-4-12 23:59:00 | 显示全部楼层
虽然很多现在是44拍,但咬住42没错,吉他里面都变慢了
发表于 2004-4-14 00:41:00 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用哈哈在2004-4-12 22:43:00的发言:


老流氓?
哪里老流氓了?
我也想了解
发表于 2004-4-14 01:07:00 | 显示全部楼层
Milonga确实可以认为是Tango他爸。但更多的认为Milonga是一种Tango最简单的Tango是2/4拍,X X | X X|…… 然后稍微复杂点,第1拍变为带附点的切分音,第2拍平均分为2拍, X . X  | X X | X . X  | X X ……                                                                                                          1    2    3  4 然后再复杂点,把第1拍的第2个音和和第2拍的第1个音(2和3)用连线连起来,使之成为:  X. X. X |  X. X. X |  X. X. X |……这时节奏可以认为有 8个8分音符,分成3组,前2组为3个8分音符。后1组为2个8分音符。重音落在每组的第1个音。由于最后一组与前2组相比少了一个8分音符,因此在律动上产生一个很强的向下一小节推进的作用——这就是Milonga。Milonga在阿根廷音乐中占非常重要地位,是种非常重要的音乐。它一般以小调为主调,和声上常使用7音配合特有的律动上的作用来产生音乐的动力。往往比较忧郁,凄美。它的艺术之美非常明确的体现了阿根廷乃至南美音乐的一个最大特征:乡愁!(Nostalgia) 一般MILONGA由比较悠扬忧郁的旋律配合传统的3-3-2的节奏,使之产生节奏上的对比,很多MILONGA还会让旋律隐藏在节奏型的重音里,或者使主旋律在节奏型和旋律中来回起伏。弹好MILONGA最重要的还是理解节奏上产生的律动,有每小节向前的动力,和声上充分体会各和弦的色彩来控制音乐的张力和力量;有时,可以注意到音乐里有些高低音的对话成分(比如Evocation)。此外就是切忌过分娇柔造作,因为MILONGA的美是非常从容的,演奏者也应该使音乐变得从容不迫;分清楚哪些是旋律哪些是和声对于如何安排指法和怎么弹很重要。欣赏MILONGA比弹MILONGA更享受。现在,MILONGA在很多地方比较多用来当作TANGO舞蹈音乐。音乐节选:http://asniler.com/sound-my/Vuelvo-Al-Sur.mpaPiazzolla 《Vuelvo al Sur》的主题。改编为吉他2重奏-----------------------------Milonga-----一种民间歌舞,类似于Jota和flamenco...这个 ~~~~~~~~~~~孙老师说的是西班牙音乐里的Milonga ------------------------------------------------
发表于 2004-4-14 01:48:00 | 显示全部楼层
我有个不解的地方,为什么说回忆组曲是milonga?
发表于 2004-4-14 02:15:00 | 显示全部楼层

网上找来  http://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3milnga.htm
http://www.lafi.org/magazine/articles/tango.html
Buenos Aires (Argentina) was founded by a Spanish expedition in 1536, then again in 1580. Immigration br ought many French, Spanish and Italians to Buenos Aires. Buenos Aires went on to become a major city. In 1816 the Waltz was introduced to Argentina, then came the Polka, Mazurka and Schottische. Spanish and Cuban rhythms mixed and the Habanera was born.

-- The Habanera music and dance came from Havana, Cuba and made its way thru Spain to Argentina in the early 19th century. The Habanera and the Polka played a part in the Argentine Dance known as the 'Milonga' ("Poor Mans Habanera"). The Milonga originated as a song with lively improvisations and a peppy tempo. When this tempo was quieted down and steps were added to it making the Milonga the first known Tango but had not yet been named as such. However the Milonga was very popular by the 1870's.
The tango and the milonga, while different genres within Argentine music, are closely related. But how so? And, if they are different genres, what is the tango milonga? A misleading use of these terms has only contributed to generate more confusion. This article, although not a comprehensive musicological or historical study of these genres, aims to answer these questions and to clarify the terms.

The milonga, which precedes the tango in history, was a solo song cultivated during the 19th Century by the gaucho (a sort of Argentine cowboy) in the vast rural area known as the Pampa. It derives from the payada de contrapunto, in which two singers (payadores), accompanying themselves on the guitar, improvised on different topics in a competition-like practice. The verses were octosyllabic quartets structured in a musical period of eight measures in 2/4. The term milonga is an African-Brazilian term that means words, that is, the words of the payadores. It may be named rural milonga in order to distinguish it from later developments of the genre.
Around 1880, through the Conquista del Desierto (the conquest of the desert), the Argentine government made possible the fencing of the Pampa and the subsequent distribution of the land into large properties for aristocratic owners and small plots of land for European immigrants, who were arriving in Argentina in large numbers. This forced the almost nomadic gauchos to settle down in the poorest suburban areas of the capital, Buenos Aires. Their adaptation to city life was difficult, and frequently they lived marginal lives of crime. Eventually they were called compadritos, a word used to denote a person with an aggressive character.

The relationship between the compadritos and the African-Argentine population in the Buenos Aires suburbs gave birth to the tango dance, which started as a result of the compadritos’ mockery of the black people’s dances with an important difference: the blacks danced separated and the compadritos danced embraced. Diverse historians affirm that the word tango derives from the name (in the slang of the black people) of their dancing places, known as tambos and, later, tangos . It is widely accepted that the mocking new choreography was taken to the brothels by the compadritos before tango music really existed as such. Eventually, music was created to fit this dance, and it is not strange that the rural milonga and the habanera, in fashion at the time, influenced it. Trial-and-error adaptations to the new dance, bringing together the rural milonga of the gauchos, the habanera of the European immigrants, and the African-Argentine dances in the melting pot that was Buenos Aires, created a mixture called tango.



The rural milonga had some particular characteristics: binary meter (2/4) and the following rhythmic pattern:

A triplet frequently replaced the dotted eighth-sixteenth notes, and the following syncopated figure could also appear:



The guitar accompaniment was structured over "spread" tonic and dominant chords, as in this example:

These characteristics of the rural milonga were also present in the early tangos of the 1900s. The tango El Choclo (1903), by Angel Villoldo, is a clear example of the influence of the rural milonga in the early tangos: 2/4 meter, the rhythmic pattern of the dotted eighth-sixteenth plus two eighth notes, and simple harmonies, usually alternating tonic and dominant chords:


Small ensembles formed by flute, violin, and guitar gave the rural milonga a peculiar timbre that the first tangos would keep. These types of ensembles would also be present in the brothels, the gathering places of the compadritos, where the early tangos were first played. The tango’s features described above are characteristic of the period comprised between the tango’s origins and 1920. This period is also known as the age of the Guardia Vieja (Old Guard). During that time, the rural milonga survived as a countryside genre independent of the tango.
From 1920 to approximately 1955 the tango underwent significant transformations. During this period, known as that of the Guardia Nueva (New Guard), three different types of tango appeared: tango milonga, tango romanza, and tango canción. The tango milonga is often called milonga interchangeably with the latter, producing confusion between the terms. Other names given to the development of the tango during this period are tango de corte milonga or milonga urbana.
Undoubtedly, Sebastián Piana was the pioneer of the tango milonga with his Milonga Sentimental, composed in 1931 with lyrics by Homero Manzi. It enriched the simple harmonies of the rural milonga and opened a whole range of rhythmic, melodic, and poetic possibilities. Many other composers followed his path: some of the most representative productions are La trampera (A. Troilo), La Puñalada (P. Castellanos), Nocturna (J. Plaza), and Taquito Militar (M. Mores).

A lot of tango milongas were performed in fast tempos, heavily marking the accents, giving them a solid rhythmic character. It is probable that this fact contributed to a popular confusion that describes the tango milonga as a "tango in a fast tempo". This representation fails to explain the existence of the slow tango milonga, like Sebastián Piana´s Milonga Triste (1936), or Astor Piazzolla´s Milonga del Angel, among many others. The confusion grew when some tango historians invented the term orquesta milonguera for orchestras that had a great sense of rhythm.
The main characteristic of the tango milonga (both slow and fast) is the presence of the rhythmic patterns of the rural milonga, like those of figures 1 and 2, and other patterns like in the following examples:








Astor Piazzolla, the internationally known creator of the New Tango, who revolutionized the traditional tango by introducing elements of classical music and jazz, used the tango milonga rhythm as an essential part of his style. His use of the 3+3+2 rhythmic pattern (emphasis on the first, fourth, and sixth eighth notes in a 4/4 bar) derives from the mutation of the rural milonga rhythm typical of the guitar accompaniment (see figure 2). He used this pattern in several fast and slow tango milongas as well as in many of his other compositions, often combining them with other rhythmic cells.
The impressive work of Astor Piazzolla had a great influence in tango music and marked a path followed by the musicians of his and the next generations. The so-called post-piazzolleanos, among them Rodolfo Mederos and Pablo Ziegler, could not find yet an alternative to the Piazzolla esthetic proposal. Tango musicians currently face the challenge of redefining the tango milonga for the XXI Century. As tango bandleader and virtuoso bandeoneonist Aníbal Troilo said, "Tango has the habit of waiting".




Endless controversies exist concerning tango history, specially regarding its origins. The following bibliography presents sources that explore the diverse and contradictory theories:

* FERRER, HORACI El Libro del Tango. Crónica y Diccionario 1850-1977. Editorial Galerna (1977)
* LABRAÑA, LUIS y SEBASTIAN, ANA: Tango, una historia. Editorial Corregidor (1992)
* GOBELLO, JOSE: Crónica General del Tango. Editorial Fraterna (1980)
* COLLIER, SIMON et al: Tango! The Dance, the Song, the Story. Thames and Hudson Ltd. (1997)
您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 注册

本版积分规则

Archiver|手机版|小黑屋|吉他中国官方

GMT+8, 2025-4-29 18:02

Powered by Discuz!

© 2001-2024 Discuz! Team.

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表