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琴的木料,拾音器对音色的影响

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发表于 2009-3-16 19:46:55 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国微信公众号
我以前也就这个问题讲过

没有PU没有琴弦,就是木吉他。

而琴体本身也是不能忽视的关键因素之一。
作为电吉他,它也同样对音色起着至关重要的作用。

忽略了谁都不可以。
片面单一的纠结这种问题一点儿意义都没有。

脱离了谁也不行。

你可以试想一下,只有PU没有琴体的琴,无论你怎样更换PU,原始的输出音色改变是有,但是都显得很苍白
你也可以试想一下,只有琴体的琴,无论怎样更换木材,原始的木琴音色是会改变很多,但是却没有输出信号,因为没有被拾音
而如果都没有接音箱,效果器,那么都不会有更好的音色。
这里的朋友所说的任何情况,都是在对音色有一定要求的范围内而言的。
如果你给一位不懂琴的朋友或是要求不高的朋友一把低档琴和一把高档琴,
他所做出来的音色,可能都差不太多。这时候,讲什么PU什么木材,什么音色,一点儿意义都没有。

考慮事情,不要太偏激,更不要太片面。
人的认识总是先由主观认识进一步升级到客观认识。
大家交流意见,相互学习没什么坏处。 爱因斯坦提出狭义相对论,达尔文提出人类进化论时,谁也没能反驳他们。甚至在一段时间和范围内被认为是经典理论被大加推崇。

呵呵,知识一部分就是这样不断更新和完善的。学习就是由认知开始,由结论结束,再由变更开始,再一次结论结束。

说实话,国内的学术交流气氛并不够好。
所以,能宽容的看问题,严谨的治学问才是重要的。而不是在这里斗嘴。
发表于 2009-3-16 20:03:55 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国抖音
当两把琴的配置几乎一样的时候
这时
哪一把更具有表现力呢?
这就要看木头了
这也是两把琴明明配置一样 就是价格一高一低的原因
可见对其音色的影响了
发表于 2009-3-16 20:11:01 | 显示全部楼层
GC视频号
几位大哥都在啊,此贴必火!这贴子真是黎大哥说的那样----月经贴!
我乱说几句哈!
电吉他这东西真是倍受争议,永远都有说不完的话题!穷人有穷人的玩法,米人有米人的玩法,高手有高手的玩法,2流师傅有2流师傅的玩法..............................大家开心就是了。要是你砍根竹子做把琴给某NB的大师用,说不定又出现了另一种NB的声音!光一把电吉他不算是完整的乐器还得需要放大器(放大器都可以说上好几天了),相关联的东西太多了可调性也太大了谁都没法说什么失真是最好的失真。所以有些东西他还真不好做,说也说不清楚!
不过我觉得抛开放大器什么的东西单方面说电吉他的话他就是木头重要!我的看法就是:木头的种类和结构设计决定了琴的大致声音的走向,配件,拾音器什么的就是对事先设计的声音作一定的修饰让声音进一步和设计要求靠拢。配件嘛你不喜欢日后还可以更换(相对来说配件都好找吧)但是木料和结构设计他以后不可以更换吧?在说有些木料是用点少点说不定你有钱就买不到呢。我到觉得这木头做的琴有种特殊的感觉,在你科学怎么发达他总有原始的东西的一席地位。好比在晶体管出现后的不久笨重的电子管几乎绝迹了,但是现在电子管在HIFAI中还是占有一席地位,哪怕是它有很多缺点。
这里说到木头的好坏就只是:那种木头做的琴发出来的声音或者木纹什么的适合人们的胃口,并不是非他莫属!工厂做琴有很多顾虑,它要权衡很多方面:比如木材的产量,价钱什么的。说不定还有些其他什么木料做的琴更适合人们的胃口呢!
我认为越到高层次《量》(所谓的量就是之间的差距)就越小,有时候可以说是微妙的!但是就那微妙的差距决定了胜负!好比金字塔越到上面就越小,俩高手对决往往是一招半试定输赢!前几天买了2个V30喇叭,说实话和我那南京喇叭比并不是一个在天上一个在地下那样的差距。南京价格是7/80(100内)V30价格是700多,价格相差10倍但声音相差不是10倍。南京声音比较闷,反映不是很快(相对来说)但是他出来的喊是吉他声音啊,不是马叫!V30声音烈些,亮点,反应快些,和南京比的话差距也是很大。单从价格看的话东西很不值,不过就为了那不是很大的差距他也是值得的!

现在讲的是和谐嘛,大家互相交流互相学习多好!愿看就看不爽就不看没必要挣!不过多多看一些高手的东西还是很受益的,不得不说像黎明,锤爷,还有几位洋文名字(洋文我不东哈,惭愧)的大哥他们的帖子和讨论可以学到不少东西。

[ 本帖最后由 修理工 于 2009-3-16 20:45 编辑 ]
 楼主| 发表于 2009-3-16 21:38:45 | 显示全部楼层
买琴买鼓,就找魔菇
谢谢朋友的见解,继续ING
发表于 2009-3-16 23:08:47 | 显示全部楼层
我就是觉得在帖子上只言片语的真的很难表达清楚。
首先我们可以从楼主的命题上来看: 什么叫影响?
是我更改了木料或者拾音器可以使音色提高多少百分点? 但同时也可以是我更改了木头或者拾音器可以使音色变烂多少个百分点。 甚至可以只是变得不同而没有好坏之分,这样的影响又怎么算?对于‘影响’可能是什么样的这里就不统一。 而且不可能进行量化, 只能是主观评判。
再者我们就算可以剔除主观因素的话,想要讨论这个问题恐怕不是东一句西一句的就能说清楚的了。 不知道论坛里有没有专业人士。 我觉得要想研究这个问题最好采用建模的方式。 我们建立一个理想化的模型。 从最低等的木料(比如说层板或者卫生巾)到最昂贵高级的木料,从最烂的拾音器到表现最优秀的拾音器做出图表来。 横轴是材料的好坏程度,纵轴是声音的表现。 (说到这里声音的表现又怎样用数字体现呢? 恐怕至少要分情况讨论,比如演奏重金属的琴和拾音器搭配在一组; 演奏blues, 演奏jazz等等的可以分组进行比对研究)。 接下来我们很可能得到并不是一条笔直的直线,而可能是抛物线或者甚至是不规则的形状。 把琴体木材和拾音器的图标进行比对。 那么我们大概又必须在某个特定的区间内才能说哪个对音色的影响更大一些。 至于怎样量化主观因素, 我们也可以采取那种hifi评测的方式。 评测hifi器材时可以从专业人士和音响爱好者中抽取评测成员,组成评测组,再忙听对器材的表现进行打分。  如果有人有更好的方式也可以说明。 当然这样的测试无论科学与否都是需要重大人力财力的。 另外从发声的原理上进行讨论也许也是可行的。但是恐怕实践起来的方法要比以上讨论的结构复杂太多了。
但这样得出的结论可行么? 就是真理么? 甚至这件事上存在不存在真理呢?
另外我赞同陶瓷兄的看法。 两者是相互制衡的, 缺一不可的。 单一说任何一方面恐怕都是不负责任的。 况且什么是好的音色什么是坏的音色,就如陶瓷兄所说的。 我们恐怕也很难定义。
这都是我自己一个人的看法,有不同意见大家也可以提出来。
发表于 2009-3-16 23:29:21 | 显示全部楼层
我发现人类具有“普遍审美观”,就是说一个所谓“好”的音色,大部分人都会认为“好”。就像大部分人都觉得“烤鸭”挺香的,大部分人都觉得20岁的“李嘉欣”挺好看的,大部分人都觉得“芙蓉”挺。。。的。这种“普遍审美观”是扎根在人的潜意识中的,估计是进化过程中,为了强化对生存环境的适应和对繁衍质量的控制而形成的。

所以评价音色有时可以用“普遍审美观”来评判,对吉他音色也是这样,而且普遍审美观是跨音乐风格的。虽然“普遍审美观”不能表达所有人对“审美”的标准,但是做评判时还是可以使用的。一把共振好、延音好的琴发出的声音和声音比较“瘪”,延音短促的琴相比,大部分人会喜欢前者。

人生比较短暂,没有太多时间浪费,琴不在多,如果能有一把顶级材质做工、配上好的拾音器(如果只能选一次的话,选输出功率不太大,对琴体共振反应灵敏的拾音器),真的是一件很享受的事情。
发表于 2009-3-17 00:56:21 | 显示全部楼层
买牛奶路过。。。
弱弱的说一句 电吉他的发声原理似乎是:
力学这块儿是 人给弦一个力 使弦产生动能 之后这部分动能通过琴颈传到整个琴体 使整个木头跟着振动 同时琴体会把一部分动能还给琴弦。。。这就解释了为什么琴体木料很重要的原因 因为不同木头有不同的固有频率 它会选择一部分特定的能量返还给琴弦 好琴都会有很美妙的overtone
电磁学这块儿 电吉他发声确实是琴弦割磁感线产生的 拾音器会选择它比较敏感的频段更突出的放大 虽然前面都是前辈 不过必须反对说电吉他的原理和电箱琴一样 这两个是完全不一样的概念 拾音器和mic也完全不是一码事儿。。。
灰常同意修理工的观点 吉他价格上去了 实际声音没差那么多 但是就是那细微的一点儿决定的好坏 木头还是拾音器的影响也是一样 大是相对的大 小是相对的小
希望原理阐释清楚了 小弟物理学的蛮好的还 哈哈 考大学还是靠物理竞赛加的分儿呢。。。
发表于 2009-3-17 01:34:08 | 显示全部楼层
吉他的音色在"互震"产生的!!

    单一震动,是不可能有吉他声的,凉衣服的时候碰到衣服架子或者钢丝,它也震动呢,但那出不来乐声.

    我想那些造琴的大师,每天研究的应该就是:如何使吉他的"互震"可控到自己需要某个音色风格的完美点.
发表于 2009-3-17 09:42:49 | 显示全部楼层
搞笑 拾音器居然是拾木头的共振 搞笑啊 哈哈
发表于 2009-3-17 09:50:42 | 显示全部楼层
大家都这么积极,我也不能沉默了,前段时间换拾音器换疯了,我来说点把。
我那把琴呢自从换了个滴马左的拾音器失真变的很整齐,很有冲击力,对力度反映表现的很好,我很满意。
我朋友一把琴也换了个拾音器,拾音器和我的一样,但是琴不一样,但是声音没有我的厚重,很明显就能感觉出来。但是,他琴的音色也提升了很多。
我弹我的琴的感觉在用一把杀猪刀在剁排骨,弹他的琴感觉像用菜刀在剁排骨。总觉得没有我的硬。
至于理论我一菜鸟也不多说什么,就一点我的经验,切身体会绝无虚假。
发表于 2009-3-17 10:12:14 | 显示全部楼层

回复 22# 陶瓷清爽 的帖子

精辟。近阶段刚刚有这感受 。高手是让琴来适应你。而不是让你来适应琴。(我不是高手)呵呵 。
发表于 2009-3-17 10:33:10 | 显示全部楼层
呵呵,很好的辩论,看的我也头大了,琴材料好重要还是拾音器好重要?
发表于 2009-3-17 10:49:08 | 显示全部楼层
http://bbs.guitarschina.com/thread-783489-1-1.html
大家对拾音器原理的阐述都不对啊!!刚新开了个贴,嘻嘻~~
发表于 2009-3-17 13:04:32 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 vacuum 于 2009-3-17 10:49 发表
http://bbs.guitarschina.com/thread-783489-1-1.html
大家对拾音器原理的阐述都不对啊!!刚新开了个贴,嘻嘻~~



ls写的不错,讲得很好。又学到东西了,阐述得很清楚。比较客观,容易懂!这个帖子里讲得我能接受。
发表于 2009-3-17 13:23:55 | 显示全部楼层
拨片拨动琴弦,拾音器拾琴弦的振动,琴体振动反馈给琴弦持续振动并赋予其振动特性。

任何一个环节对音色都是有影响的,
更换琴弦和使用不同的拨片带来的音色改变是最便捷的;
更换拾音器带来的音色改变是可取的;
更换琴体木料带来的音色改变是不可能的,因为那样就等于换了一把琴……

所以对于选择琴来说,最重要的环节是选择琴体的材质,
拾音器不是不重要,而是因为琴体的不可改变性使之决定了选择琴体更重要……
发表于 2009-3-17 14:55:25 | 显示全部楼层

NND 忍不了了~

The Secrets of Electric Guitar PickupsBy Helmuth E. W. Lemme
Update: February 25, 2009
An electric bass or guitar's sound depends greatly on its pickups. There are lengthy discussions between musicians about the advantages and disadvantages of different models, and for someone who has no knowledge of electronics the subject may seem to be very complicated. Electrically, though, pickups are fairly easy to understand - so this article will examine the connection between electrical characteristics and sound.
I am sorry to say that most pickup manufacturers spread misleading information on their products, in order to make more money and to agitate their competitors. So some corrections of facts will be necessary. I am not affiliated with any manufacturer.
There are two basic pickup types, magnetic pickups and piezoelectric pickups. The latter type work with all kinds of strings (steel, nylon, or gut). Magnetic pickups work only with steel strings, and consist of magnets and coils. Singlecoil pickups are sensitive to magnetic fields generated by transformers, fluorescent lamps, and other sources of interference, and are prone to pick up hum and noise from these sources. Dual coil or "humbucking" pickups use two specially configured coils to minimize this interference. Because these coils are electrically out of phase, common-mode signals (i.e. signals such as hum that radiate into both coils with equal amplitude) cancel each other.
The arrangement of the magnets is different for different pickups. Some types have rod or bar magnets inserted directly in the coils, while others have magnets below the coils, and cores of soft iron in the coils. In many cases these cores are screws, so level differences between strings can be evened out by screwing the core further in or out. Some pickups have a metal cover for shielding and protection of the coils, others have a plastic cover that does not shield against electromagnetic interference, and still others have only isolating tape for protecting the wire.
The magnetic field lines flow through the coil(s) and a short section of the strings. With the strings at rest, the magnetic flux through the coil(s) is constant. Pluck a string and the flux changes, which will induce an electric voltage in the coil. A vibrating string induces an alternating voltage at the frequency of vibration, where the voltage is proportional to the velocity of the strings motion (not its amplitude). Furthermore, the voltage depends on the string's thickness and magnetic permeability, the magnetic field, and the distance between the magnetic pole and the string.
There are so many pickups on the market that it is difficult to get a comprehensive overview. In addition to the pickups that come with an instrument, replacement pickups - many of them built by companies that do not build guitars - are also available. Every pickup produces its own sound; one may have a piercing metallic quality, and another a warm and mellow sound. To be precise: A pickup does not "have" a sound, it only has a "transfer characteristic". It transfers the sound material that it gets from the strings and alters it, every model in its own fashion. For instance: Mount the same Gibson humbucker on a Les Paul and on a Super 400 CES: you will hear completely different sounds. And the best pickup is useless when you have a poor guitar body with poor strings. The basic rule is always: garbage in - garbage out!
Replacement pickups allow the guitarist to change sounds without buying another instrument (within the limitations of body and strings, of course). Different pickups also have different output voltages. High output models can make it easier to overdrive amplifiers to produce a dirty sound, while low output models tend to produce a more clean sound. The output voltage of most pickups varies between 100 mV and 1 V RMS.
Unlike other transducers that have moving parts (microphones, speakers, record player pickups etc.), magnetic guitar pickups have no moving parts - the magnetic field lines change, but they have no mass. So evaluating pickups is much easier than with other transducers. Although the frequency responses of nearly all available magnetic pickups are nonlinear (which creates the differences in sound), they don't have quite as many adjacent peaks and notches in their frequency response as for example a speaker. In fact, the frequency response can be smooth and simple enough to be easily described with a mathematical formula.
The Pickup as CircuitFrom an electrical standpoint, a magnetic guitar pickup is equivalent to the circuit in Fig. 1.

Fig. 1. Electrical equivalent circuit of a magnetic pickup
A real coil can be described electrically as an ideal inductance L in series with an Ohmic resistance R, and parallel to both a winding capacitance C. This replacement circuit can be used as a first approximation. It is a bit simplified compared to the reality but quite useful for the beginning. The finer details are explained later. For a humbucker, two of these circuits have to be connected in series. Since both coils (with precise manufacturing) have practically identical properties, you may use the same simple replacement circuit for the electrical examination. You then have to use twice the values for the inductance and the resistance and half of the value for the capacitance as compared to one coil.
Many people measure only the resistance and think they know something about a pickup. But this is a fundamental error. By far the most important quantity is the inductance, measured in Henries. It depends on the number of turns, the magnetic material in the coil, the winding density and the overall geometry of the coil. The resistance and the capacitance don´t have much influence and can be neglected in a first approximation.
When the strings are moving, an AC voltage is induced in the coil. So the pickup acts like an AC source with some attached electric components (Fig. 2).
Fig. 2. A pickup as an audio voltage source plus second-order lowpassThe external load consists of resistance (the volume and tone potentiometer in the guitar, and any resistance to ground at the amplifier input) and capacitance (due to the capacitance between the hot lead and shield in the guitar cable). The cable capacitance is significant and must not be neglected. This arrangement of passive components forms a so-called second-order low-pass filter (Fig. 3).

Fig. 3. A pickup plus real external load (pots, cable, and amp input resistance)
Thus, like any other similar filter, it has a cut-off frequency fg; this is where the response is down 3 dB (which means half power). Above fg, the response rolls off at a 12 dB per octave rate, and far below fg, the attenuation is zero. There is no low frequency rolloff; however, a little bit below fg there is an electrical resonance between the inductance of the pickup coil and the capacitance of the guitar cable. This frequency, called fmax, exhibits an amplitude peak. The passive low-pass filter works as a voltage amplifier here (but doesn't amplify power because the output current becomes correspondingly low, as with a transformer). Fig. 4 shows the typical contour of a pickup's frequency response.

Fig. 4. Fundamental frequency response of a magnetic pickup.
Position and height of the peak vary from type to type

If you know the resonant frequency and height of the resonant peak, you know about 90 percent of a pickup's transfer characteristics; these two parameters are the key to the "secret" of a pickup's sound (some other effects cannot be described using this model, but their influence is less important).
What all this means is that overtones in the range around the resonant frequency are amplified, overtones above the resonant frequency are progressively reduced, and the fundamental vibration and the overtones far below the resonant frequency are reproduced without alteration.
How Resonance Affects SoundThe resonant frequency of most available pickups in combination with normal guitar cables lies between 2,000 and 5,000 Hz. This is the range where the human ear has its highest sensitivity. A quick subjective correlation of frequency to sound is that at 2,000 Hz the sound is warm and mellow, at 3,000 Hz brilliant or present, at 4,000 Hz piercing, and at 5,000 Hz or more brittle and thin. The sound also depends on the height of the peak, of course. A high peak produces a powerful, characteristic sound; a low peak produces a weaker sound, especially with solid body guitars that have no acoustic body resonance. The height of the peak of most available pickups ranges between 1 and 4 (0 to 12 dB), it is dependent on the magnetic material in the coil, on the external resistive load , and on the metal case (without casing it is higher; many guitarists prefer this).
The resonant frequency depends on both the inductance L (with most available pickups, between 1 and 10 Henries) and the capacitance C. C is the sum of the winding capacitance of the coil (usually about 80 - 200 pF) and the cable capacitance (about 300 - 1,000 pF). Since different guitar cables have different amounts of capacitance, it is clear that using different guitar cables with an unbuffered pickup will change the resonant frequency and hence the overall sound.
There are some books that deal especially with electric guitar pickups. They pay much attention to the resistance and the magnet materials. But the resistance is the least interesting magnitude of all. And statements like "Alnico 5 sounds like this, Alnico 2 sounds like that" are completely misleading. Many "pickup experts" have never heard the term "inductance". What you find in those books is an obsolete "geocentric" view on pickups that will never work.
The integral "heliocentric" view on pickups: Pickup, pots in the guitar, cable capacitance, and amp input impedance are an interactive system that must not be split up into its parts. If you analyze the properties of the parts separately you will never understand how the system works as a whole. The sound material a pickup receives from the strings is not flavoured by the pickup alone but by the complete system. This includes the guitar cable.
Another cable, another sound! This is a shame but it is true. You can easily check it up. A few pickup manufacturers know that fact but they conceal it. The majority seems to be totally ignorant.
The influence of eddy currentsAs mentioned earlier, this overview has been simplified to make it easier to understand. Up to this point, it has not taken into account the influence of eddy currents in metal parts. Such currents appear wherever an alternating magnetic field flows through electrically conductive parts. These parts are mostly the cores of magnetic coils ?that is, either permanent magnets (in which the currents are relatively weak) oder soft iron parts such as screws or fixed slugs (where the currents are stronger). Strong eddy currents can also occur in metal covers; these currents vanish when the covers are removed. To some degree, the currents?strength depends on the dimensions of the metal parts as well as their constituent materials. The decisive factor, however, is the parts?specific resistivity, which is highly variable. There are thousands of iron and steel core types, whose properties can differ widely, resulting in variable frequency transmission characteristics. Metal covers are made of either brass (copper/zinc) or German Silver (copper/zinc/nickel); the latter has a higher specific resistivity and is therefore less conductive to eddy currents. Plastic covers are not conductive. To a lesser extent, eddy currents can also occur in base plates as well as in metal magnets located underneath the coils.
Eddy currents have a threefold effect: First, they reduce resonance superelevation, sometimes to the point of eliminating it completely; secondly, they steepen the slope of frequency transmissions at a height far exceeding the resonant frequency, where 18 dB/octave slopes can be measured. This slope is inversely proportional to the threefold power of the frequency. Thirdly, they cause the frequency transmission curve to drop slightly below the resonant frequency, as shown in Fig. 5:

Fig. 5. Transmission characteristics resulting from strong eddy currents
There have been attempts to measure eddy currents by attaching resistors to the replacement circuit, in parallel to the coil or to the terminals. This method has not been successful, however, for although it does reduce resonance superelevation, it fails to achieve the other two above-mentioned results. A much more effective approach is to divide the coil in two, and to connect only one of the two parts via resistor (R2). The point of division is "virtual" ?that is, it does not actually exist, or rather, it cannot be measured directly. This point does not correspond directly to the point at which the two coils in a humbucker are connected; this also holds true for single-coil pickups that have been strongly damped against eddy currents (such as Gibson P90 or DiMarzio "Fat Strat"). The two parts of the coil do not have to be the same size. For practical purposes, identical sizes can be used as a point of departure, but there is no need to keep them identical. The extended replacement circuit is shown in Fig. 6:

Fig. 6. Replacement circuit for a pickup with eddy currents
When you rearrange this setup into an AC signal source by attaching a passive filter, you obtain the configuration shown in Fig. 7:

Fig. 7. Pickup with eddy currents as signal source with attached lowpass filter 3
Altering Pickup CharacteristicsBasically, there are three different ways to change a guitar's sound as it relates to pickups:
1. Install new pickups. This method is most common, but also the most expensive.
2. Change the coil configuration of the built in pickups. This is possible with nearly all humbucking pickups. Normally, both coils are switched in series. Switching them in parallel cuts the inductance to a quarter of the initial value, so the resonant frequency (all other factors including the guitar cable being equal) will be twice as high. Using only one of the coils halves the inductance, so the resonant frequency will increase by the factor of the square root of 2 (approximately 1.4). In both cases, the sound will have more treble than before. Many humbucking pickups have four output wires - two for each coil - so different coil combinations can be tried without having to open the pickup. Some single coil pickups have a coil tap to provide a similar flexibility.
3. Change the external load. This method is inexpensive but can be very effective. With only a little expense for electronic components, the sound can be shaped within wide limits. Standard tone controls lower the resonant frequency by connecting a capacitor in parallel with the pickup (usually through a variable resistor to give some control over how much the capacitor affects the pickup). Therefore, one way to change the sound is to replace the standard tone control potentiometer with a rotary switch that connects different capacitors across the pickup (a recommended range is 470 pF to 10 nF). This will give you much more sound variation than a standard tone control (Fig. 8).

Fig. 8. Changing the frequency response with
different external capacitors parallel to a pickup coil

These rotary switches are commercially available now, handmade by the author, embedded in epoxy resin (Fig. 9).

Fig. 9. Rotary switch with a selection of different capacitors, embedded in epoxy resin
Also, adding an internal buffer amplifier can isolate the pickup from some of the loading effects of cable capacitance, thus giving a brighter sound with higher resonance frequency and higher peak.
The table correlates some well-known pickups and their electrical characteristics. However, note that pickups are not precision devices and that old pickups in particular (eg. Fender and Gibson pickups of the fifties) vary so much that almost each one sounds different from the next. Thus, the values of the resonant frequency in the table are rounded to the nearest 100 Hz. Also note that peaks become very flat and large below 1,000 Hz. As the height of the resonance peak depends on the external load resistance (volume pot, tone pot and amplifier input resistance), lowering this load (e.g. by switching resistors in parallel to the pickup) lowers the height. For raising the height of the peak, the load resistance must be increased. In many cases this is only possible by installing a FET or other high-impedance preamp in the guitar.
See table: Resonant frequencies of some well-know pickups for various parallel capacitors
4. Install an active electronic circuit that acts as a second-order low-pass filter. This will give you the possibility to adjust the resonant frequency and the resonance height continuously with potentiometers, instead of only in discrete steps. So you can imitate the sound characteristics of many different guitar and bass pickups. These circuits are called „State Variable Filter". The first instrument manufacturer to apply this was Alembic since the seventies, later it was copied by others. Completely mounted circuit boards of this kind, fitting into most common instruments, are available from the author (Fig. 10). They need a 9 V battery for supply, and on some instruments some space inside the body that must be routed.

Fig.10. Active electronic circuit that acts as a second-order low-pass- filter and imitates the sound characteristics of many different guitar and bass pickups
Measuring Frequency ResponseTo precisely measure a pickup's frequency response, it would be necessary to measure the vibration of the string and compare it with the output voltage at every frequency. In practice, this is very difficult to do. An alternative to moving the string is to subject the pickup to an outside magnetic field, generated by a transmitting coil. This induces a voltage by changing the magnetic flux through the coils. As the induced voltage in the pickup is proportional to the variation of the magnetic field with time, the driving current through the coil must be inversely proportional to the frequency.
A sine wave voltage feeds an integrator circuit to produce an output voltage that is inversely proportional to frequency. This signal then goes into a power amplifier and then to the transmitting coil that actually couples the signal into the pickup. The coil can consist of a pickup bobbin wound with about 50 turns of enamelled copper wire (approximately 0.5 mm, or 0.02 inches in diameter, no. 24). The exact value is not critical. The coil must be driven with a constant current independent of its impedance. It is mounted above the pickup so that it radiates its magnetic field into the pickup coil(s) as fully as possible. With single coil pickups, the axes must be in line with each other; with humbucking pickups, the axis of the transmitting coil must be perpendicular to the axes of the pickup's coils (Fig. 11).

Fig.11. A transmitting coil radiates its magnetic AC field into the pickup coils. So you can measure the frequency response easily
To plot the response, vary the sine wave frequency from about 100 Hz to 10 kHz and measure the pickup's output voltage with a broad-band multimeter or oscilloscope. The absolute value is not important; what matters is the position of the resonance peak and its height above the overall amplitude at lower frequencies. The effect of different load capacitors (cables) and resistors (pots) is easy to examine with this setup. One of the main advantages of this measuring method is that no modifications on the guitar are necessary, and the pickups need not be removed from the guitar.
This complete measuring arrangement is now available as a commercial instrument. With this, you can easily see what a pickup does with the sound material it gets from strings and body. This is the end of wandering around in the fog. The Pickup Analyzer© (Fig. 12) determines the frequency response, it shows which frequencies are emphasized and which are attenuated - objectively, independent of strings and body, with mounted or loose pickups. How it works: A transmitting coil radiates an alternating magnetic field into the coil(s) of the pickup. While the frequency is varied over the entire audio range, the instrument measures the output voltage of the pickup. The external load conditions can be varied over a wide range: 11 capacitors from 40 pF to 10 nF and four resistors from 125 kOhm to 1 MOhm. Also, the combination of a pickup with a guitar cable can be measured, the influence of different cables on the response is plain to see. Furthermore, it is possible to analyze any modifications on a pickup, such as removing the metal cover or exchanging the magnets for others, or technical defects like short-circuit windings inside the coil. Sample variations of the pickup series can be recognized quickly, deviants can be identified and sorted out. So reclaiming from the manufacturer will have a better chance. The Pickup Analyzer© saves time in development and repairs. Main users are pickup manufacturers, high quality guitarmakers and renowned music shops.

Fig.12. The "Pickup Analyzer"© - the first commercially available measuring instrument for the frequency resonponse of magnetic pickups.
In its first version the Pickup Analyzer worked as a stand-alone device. The figures of frequency and response were read on two seven-segment LED displays. The new second version (Fig. 13) is used in combination with a PC. It is connected via two audio cables to the sound card which works als digital to analog and analog to digital converter.

Fig. 13. The new PC-coupled Pickup Analyzer©
If you run the measuring software you will get the response curves of the pickup on the PC screen. You can easily store it and print it, or send it to another person by e-mail. Fig. 14 and 15 show some results.
Fig. 14 shows the frequency response of a 1972 Fender Stratocaster Pickup with constant capacitive load (470 pF) and eight different Ohmic loads from 10 kOhms to 10 MOhms. It can be seen how different values of pots in the guitar influence the height of the resonance peak. With 47 kOhms or less the peak vanishes.

Fig. 14. Response of a Fender Stratocaster pickup with 470 pF load capacitance and different Ohmic loads
Fig. 15 shows the frequency response of the same pickup, now with constant resistive load and eight different load capacitors from 47 pF to 2200 pF. The resonance frequency and so the tonal characteristics can be easily changed by varying the load capacitance.

Fig. 15. Response of a Fender Stratocaster pickup (1972) with 10 MOhms ohmic load and eight different capacitive loads
For comparison Fig. 16 shows the response of an inferior pickup. This is a Hoyer built around 1970, looking like a humbucker but with only one coil inside, capacitive load 470 pF, five different resistive loads. With the 250 k pots used in this guitar there is no more resonance because of very strong eddy currents in the metal parts. The sound is dull.

Fig. 16. Response of an inferior pickup.
Some commentsThe measured result is really precise only for single coil pickups. Humbucking pickups have certain notches at high frequencies, because the vibrations of the strings are picked up at two points simultaneously. High overtones, where the peak of the waveform occurs over one pole and the trough (valley) of the wave occurs over the other, can produce cancellations. These notches are at different frequencies for each string and cannot be described with a single curve. For instance, with standard size humbucking pickups, for the deep E string the notch is at about 3,000 Hz, for the A string at 4,000 Hz. For the high strings the notch is far above the cutoff frequency fg and can hardly be heard.
The effect of the sound difference between one coil and two coils with a humbucker is overestimated by far. The main reason for getting more treble with one coil is that the resonant frequency has been raised because of the halving of the inductance. Sensing the strings at only one point instead of two also has an effect, but this is much smaller. It can only be compared when the resonant frequency is held constant while switching.
Furthermore, this measuring method does not take into consideration the effect of different output voltages of different pickups. In the „crunch" range of a tube amp a loud pickup produces a different tone than a low volume pickup, even when their transfer characteristics are equal. Nevertheless, testing a pickup in this manner gives useful information on its characteristics. With this knowledge, you can find which type of sounds appeal to you the most, and possibly bend and shape the frequency response with external capacitors and resistors to "tune" pickups to your liking (and for the best match to the body and strings).
Finally, the nonlinear distortion of a pickup cannot be measured in this way. It exists, because the relationship between the magnetic flux through the coil(s) and the distance from the magnetic pole to the string follows a hyperbolic curve. So, if the string vibrates in a sine wave (which every harmonic does by itself), additional even harmonics are produced which do not exist in the natural spectrum of the vibration, and as a consequence alter the sound. The resulting distortion depends on the width of the string vibration and can hardly be quantified. The shorter the distance between magnetic pole and string, the stronger it is. This can be heard: With a shorter distance, the sound is more aggressive than with a larger distance. But with too short a distance, the magnets pull the strings, and harmonics are shifted so that they are no longer exact multiples of the fundamental frequency, but a little higher or lower. If this variation is very small, it can sound good and the tone becomes more alive, like with a slight chorus effect. But if it is too large, the sound will be terrible. You will find this problem on many Stratocasters, it is called "Stratitis". The only way to reduce it is to adjust the pickup to be further away from the strings.
© Helmuth E. W. Lemme, Munich, Germany
发表于 2009-3-17 15:03:10 | 显示全部楼层
References:
How do guitar pick-ups works? By Hank Wallace (website)
http://www.aqdi.com/pickups.htm
Smith, Monica. 2001. “The Electric Guitar: How we got from Andres Sergovia to Kurt Coban”. Invention and Technology, Summer 2001, Volume 20, Issue 1 (online article)
http://www.americanheritage.com/ ... 4/1/2004_1_12.shtml
The Guitar by Sam Hokin (website) http://www.bsharp.org/physics/stuff/guitar.html
Physics of the Acoustic Guitar by Ian Billington (website) http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211.web.stuff/billington/main.htm
How does a guitar work? By Joe Wolfe, University of South Wales, Department of Physics, Sydney, Australia (website) http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/guitarintro.htmlNNSNSVibration
发表于 2009-3-17 16:01:52 | 显示全部楼层
樓上的好貼啊。

其實對于使用者來說,還是琴體更重要
因為PU你可以隨便換
但琴本身的結搆,材質你是不能換的。

想要高品質的聲音,琴身上的任何一個環節都要高品質才可以。
发表于 2009-3-17 16:29:28 | 显示全部楼层
熊猫的贴有够专业(以至于看不太懂)。
发表于 2009-3-17 17:14:40 | 显示全部楼层
好!好! 洋文名字的大哥也出现了!!! [em21]
发表于 2009-3-17 17:50:29 | 显示全部楼层
谁能翻译过来啊,我想看看写的是什么?本人学的是理科e文早忘了。。几个图倒是能看懂

[ 本帖最后由 zb730917 于 2009-3-17 17:54 编辑 ]
发表于 2009-3-17 17:57:05 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 zb730917 于 2009-3-17 17:50 发表
谁能翻译过来啊,我想看看写的是什么?本人学的是理科e文早忘了。。几个图倒是能看懂


简单的说 就是 黎明说的那些 基本上都是对的~

看看 黎明什么时候想自虐的时候 把这篇文章翻译一下~~ 俺实在太忙了~

通俗的说,Pickup 是带有自身色彩的将琴声转化为电子信号的收音设备~~ 并不能创造声音~~ 要声音好关键还是琴~ 其实真的折腾过几把好琴和几个Pickup的人也不需要上述复杂的论证~ 心理都是比较有谱的~

[ 本帖最后由 hbk 于 2009-3-17 18:04 编辑 ]
发表于 2009-3-17 18:06:26 | 显示全部楼层
得。我直接找我学生翻译吧!对于这个我很好奇,难道以前对于拾音器原理的认识都是错的?
发表于 2009-3-17 18:10:05 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 zb730917 于 2009-3-17 18:06 发表
得。我直接找我学生翻译吧!对于这个我很好奇,难道以前对于拾音器原理的认识都是错的?


是的~~您的观点确实有不少不妥的地方~

你需要的话~ 我还有 很多资料可以给你参考~~包括 怎样做出一块好的 拾音器 等等~~

[ 本帖最后由 hbk 于 2009-3-17 18:11 编辑 ]
发表于 2009-3-17 18:21:38 | 显示全部楼层
哦,谢谢。拾音器我以前试着作过,资料我也有些。不过因为外语不太好外国网站上的少了。

http://www.aqdi.com/pickups.htm

抱着字典看的,晕头转向了。。。

大家英文好的都看看吧。hbk兄弟给的网页,原理讲得应该比较清楚!

[ 本帖最后由 zb730917 于 2009-3-17 18:31 编辑 ]
发表于 2009-3-17 18:40:42 | 显示全部楼层

回复 136# hbk 的帖子

HBK院士专业
发表于 2009-3-17 18:45:32 | 显示全部楼层
竟宵爷是生物危险里戴帽子的那位?
发表于 2009-3-17 20:08:26 | 显示全部楼层
<P>[flash]
<OBJECT height=340 width=400><PARAM NAME="movie" VALUE="http://www.tudou.com/v/cIMIQt0yr5k"><PARAM NAME="allowScriptAccess" VALUE="always"><PARAM NAME="wmode" VALUE="transparent">
<embed src="http://www.tudou.com/v/cIMIQt0yr5k" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="400" height="340" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></OBJECT>[/flash]</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>刚刚自制的简易“空心电吉他” <BR>用的4根弦的特殊定弦。 <BR>使用材料:箱琴一把,胶带若干,铁丝少许,实心电吉他专用双排PICKUP一个。 <BR>制作周期:半小时 <BR>测试曲目:一段即兴</P>
<P>&nbsp; </P>
 楼主| 发表于 2009-3-17 20:19:23 | 显示全部楼层

回复 137# hbk 的帖子

哥们,我做论文也没这么认真过啊,谢谢你 ~~
发表于 2009-3-17 23:09:51 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 hbk 于 2009-3-17 14:55 发表
The Secrets of Electric Guitar PickupsBy Helmuth E. W. Lemme
Update: February 25, 2009
An electric bass or guitar's sound depends greatly on its pickups. There are lengthy discussions between musici ...


The Words To End All Wars,HBK是名副其实的“中国吉他第一烧”
发表于 2009-3-17 23:36:39 | 显示全部楼层
这帖子里,除了熊猫以外, master ShiFu ,和五杰也都齐了。。。。。
发表于 2009-3-18 08:13:38 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 极速流星锤 于 2009-3-17 23:09 发表


The Words To End All Wars,HBK是名副其实的“中国吉他第一烧”


这个Title 是你的......:)
发表于 2009-3-18 09:11:02 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 hbk 于 2009-3-18 08:13 发表


这个Title 是你的......:)


我温度已经下降了,今年准备重锤出击只定做一把琴,再次集万千宠爱于一把琴中,所以最发愁的是配置单,还在冥思苦想YY中。。。
发表于 2009-3-18 10:04:02 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 极速流星锤 于 2009-3-18 09:11 发表


我温度已经下降了,今年准备重锤出击只定做一把琴,再次集万千宠爱于一把琴中,所以最发愁的是配置单,还在冥思苦想YY中。。。


  按照以往的经验来看~ 你肯定忍不住地~~
发表于 2009-3-19 12:43:07 | 显示全部楼层
I am sorry to say that most pickup manufacturers spread misleading information on their products, in order to make more money and to agitate their competitors.

这话绝对说到我心坎里去了
 楼主| 发表于 2009-3-31 13:28:20 | 显示全部楼层
GO ON。。。。
发表于 2009-3-31 13:59:43 | 显示全部楼层
我认为电吉他讨论这个意义不大。后期渲染的太多。
原声吉他讨论这个的多,而且完全没有异议。原声的乐器 差别太明显了
尤其是你干弹的时候,电吉他尤其音量太小,你无法判断什么是好的震动。你只有接电吉他音箱辨别,这时通过不同的拾音器,线,到喇叭,声音不一定是好是坏, 用同一个音箱比较两把不同的吉他时候,还不一定喜欢哪把。  所以对电吉他来说是漂亮就好,就抓业。

[ 本帖最后由 李钊 于 2009-3-31 14:03 编辑 ]
发表于 2011-10-7 13:36:09 | 显示全部楼层
[em13] [em13]
发表于 2011-10-8 12:35:40 | 显示全部楼层
这个贴子真专业啊,琴体的振动是影响琴弦的振动频率的,这样去切磁点时才会产生电流,,而琴的木头不同,振动频率也是不同的,音色当然不同,拾音器是麦克风的作用
发表于 2011-10-8 13:26:27 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 极速流星锤 于 2009-3-15 23:36 发表


这个问题想和谐讨论一下

我感觉拾音器“拾”的是“声音的能量”。而这个“声音的能量”是由(1)琴弦的震动经由琴颈和琴桥传递给琴体;(2)引起琴体共振增加声音的振幅而产生的。

因此拾音器“拾” ...
我觉得也是!顶你兄弟
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