一,关于aged油漆是否37年或30年代的配方的问题
我个人仍然保留我之前的意见。
是的,小弟看到的就是马丁官网以下内容:
To achieve the desired look, Martin had to restore a lacquer formula used many years ago. On a 30s era Martin, the lacquer appears very thin compared to today’s guitars.
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
以上内容,直接相关的话就是在前面:
【试译】为了达到想要的外观,马丁不得不复原在很多年前使用的油漆配方,,,
这句话,明显指的是aged型号,因为这篇文章的主题就是aged嘛。但是,这段文字很奇怪。语焉不详啊,,,前句刚刚说“复原了很多年前的配方”,接着却说30年代的马丁油漆如何如何云云,,油漆很薄,比今天的马丁吉他不一样云云。后面几句仍是讲30年代油漆如何与今天马丁吉他不同云云。。。这里就奇怪了,你没有说aged型号复原了30年代的油漆,那你说30年代油漆如何如何好有毛用啊哇咔咔(不过,我们看客只能假设“很多年前的油漆配方”与30年代的油漆配方是接近的,搞点意淫?哇咔咔)
To achieve the desired look, Martin had to restore a lacquer formula used many years ago. On a 30s era Martin, the lacquer appears very thin compared to today’s guitars.
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
这段话有两个重点,第一个是 “Martin had to restore a lacquer formula used many years ago”,这里首先就是漆面的配方。第二个重点是“ Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use”,这段话的意思是在很多年的使用中,漆面磨损,漆面的质量(理解为厚度和重量)都会降低。
所以aged工艺,它的漆面配方和普通AU不一样,它的漆面也经过了更多打磨。来模拟老琴漆面的磨损,敲黑板,模拟老琴漆面的磨损,让这个打磨使漆面更薄,达到老琴的漆面的薄度,甚至比真正一把195x,6x,7x年出厂的新琴还要薄。这个漆面的手感我们聚会对比过普通AU,aged摸着的那种起伏感更强,灯光打在漆面上也能看出和普通AU漆面的差别。
你知道你为什么没有注意到对漆面磨损的描述,正是应证了你白嫖其他网友的知识,没有自己的理解。白字黑字写在马丁官网上的东西,你还是只能依靠其他琴友的解读来忽悠另一批琴友。
这个打脸够不够实锤,到这里这个现场,大家都应该明白了。
再补充一下,和m68o节下这段缘分起源于这个帖子,大家可以从63楼看起,可能中间m68o已经编辑掉了一些他对自己不利的发言了,大家看看吧,帖子地址: https://bbs.guitarschina.com/thread-2489121-2-1.html
本来在讨论D28MD,大家各有自己的意见,讨论很正常,m68o莫名奇妙的大字报贴人,发我闲鱼挂的交流琴,我闲鱼当时挂价195828,交流为主。m68o大字报非常肯定195X年不是阿迪,大家也看到了,他现在这个“最近比较闲,谈谈Sitika和AD”抄了我分享的知识(UMGF论坛上的,这个帖子我前面回复有自证),又说大概率是西提卡,小概率是阿迪。当时m68o搞我的时候,我没有理他,因为我知道他段位没到,根本不懂。所以可以看到他那时候一直很嗨,他甚至后来专门开了一个帖子说这事,大家看我当时理他了吗?根本没理他。
之后就防潮柜的帖子,这次我对他不放手的原因有两个,最重要的原因是m68o自己圆不了说错的东西,开始骂人,第二个原因是他可以为吵架一定要吵赢,忽悠琴友,乱说知识,前面湿度变化大长期冰火伤琴,后面又说湿度变化大冰火他几年都遇不了一次,大家可以从19楼开始看起,同样m68o可能编辑掉了一些对他不利的言论,帖子地址: https://bbs.guitarschina.com/thread-2495194-1-1.html
所以m68o,白嫖知识、老马丁面板打脸,湿度冰火打脸、辱骂琴友、断章取义,永远只想掩盖自己的做黑的地方,从不为自己说错做错的负责。
这个现场对aged油漆的讨论,相信各位有眼光的琴友能做出自己的判断。m68o连aged工艺文章里对模拟漆面磨损的处理的白底黑字都读不明白,还能期待他什么,他只是想求关注,想当大神,在他有限的,白嫖其他琴友的知识里脑补,断章。
说实话,m68o如此低的知识水平,我觉得也没必要和他继续讨论了,让他通过吵架来成长。
请m68o不要编辑自己的回复,不要去添加你又知道了漆面磨损,我已经截图。这个回复实锤了你的黑。
To achieve the desired look, Martin had to restore a lacquer formula used many years ago. On a 30s era Martin, the lacquer appears very thin compared to today’s guitars.
马丁官方说的是为了得到想要的外形使用了多年前的配方,多少年前,没说,是否比普通AU更薄,没说,是否比30年代用的漆还往前,比如20年代 10年代,19世纪,没说,只是说了30年代用的漆比现代吉他用的漆薄,仅此而已。
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
而30年代使用的漆不像现在那么厚,而且随着使用磨平更薄了,还会脱落大量东西(什么东西,没解释清楚,不过都知道吉他弹久了木头会干得更充分,从而导致重量变轻。),但还是没有说关于 aged系列是否使用了更薄的漆,或者说是使用了30年代的配方。
我就想问马丁官方哪里说了aged系列比普通AU的漆更薄了?
In 2015, all Authentic models except for 42 Style and 45 Style (which will be Full Gloss), will be finished by hand with Martin's rediscovered and historically accurate Vintage Gloss finish. This is consistent with processes used at Martin during the 1930s.
如果你不明白aged这个词我来告诉你,做旧,既然做旧就要把新琴弄得坑坑洼洼像老琴一般,但是坑坑洼洼的外观,漆面使用了几十年变薄了琴体变轻了,有漆面磨损越多是否就代表声音更好,答案是否定的,因为不少老琴都弹不出好声,他们年代够久远,有些是战前有些是战中战后,漆面已经非常薄了,但为什么不出好声,就是因为保养不当,状态不佳,老琴维修是很正常的,没几把老琴不需要维修,但是维修也有分A B C级,A级修琴师可以帮你把老琴起死回生,C级修琴师会让琴的状态雪上加霜。
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
这段话有两个重点,第一个是 “Martin had to restore a lacquer formula used many years ago”,这里首先就是漆面的配方。第二个重点是“ Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use”,这段话的意思是在很多年的使用中,漆面磨损,漆面的质量(理解为厚度和重量)都会降低。
所以aged工艺,它的漆面配方和普通AU不一样,它的漆面也经过了更多打磨。来模拟老琴漆面的磨损,敲黑板,模拟老琴漆面的磨损,让这个打磨使漆面更薄,达到老琴的漆面的薄度,甚至比真正一把195x,6x,7x年出厂的新琴还要薄。这个漆面的手感我们聚会对比过普通AU,aged摸着的那种起伏感更强,灯光打在漆面上也能看出和普通AU漆面的差别。
In 2015, all Authentic models except for 42 Style and 45 Style (which will be Full Gloss), will be finished by hand with Martin's rediscovered and historically accurate Vintage Gloss finish. This is consistent with processes used at Martin during the 1930s.
所以也印证了我说的,你的琴就是用了更薄的漆,官方有证据表示过吗?暂时没有,目前靠的是你自己意淫,凭借这段话去YY,Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.为的是什么,还是卖琴,你为了卖琴所以不中立,下面又是一个例子。
另外,关于是1937年油漆配方的消息来源是本地的Martin大代理,他去Martin的CS部门每年都要订做各种琴,这是他和Martin CS的人专门聊过的,马丁D28 AU 1937普通版的油漆是5 Mils厚度(1 Mil = 千分之一英寸=0.0254毫米),
而做旧版的油漆由于使用了37年配方,直接做到了3 Mils厚度
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
我还有几个疑问想请教下,我在UMGF 1937 aged club里面看到的,比如在视频了马丁声称只产了50把D28 1937 AA,但他没有内标比如1 of 50,外网在售全新的至少有30把(欧美,日本)然后我见过的二手不同序列号的也至少有20把,国内我朋友那有一把,然后咸鱼我看过2把。比如你说的你和你的学生又买了几把。这里已经超过50把了。
I watched Martin's video and I cannot help but wonder why they will not use the 3mm (new formula) finish on the non aged guitars if they truly sound superior to the others. Maybe in time they will.
"I wonder if they will continue doing this aging process with other models, or if they will offer "aging" as a custom option in the future."
I was told the custom shop aged offering was going to be announced at NAMM. I guess it wasn't, so I'd imagine it is coming soon. (it was a reliable source)
Lacquers used in the 30s were not as hearty as today’s finishes and over time they would gradually wear down, shedding some of their mass over decades of use.
很快,这一D28 AA版在美国销售了最初的一批,我基本是最早一批用户了,包括UMGF上的俱乐部贴,也是我们最早几个用户在D28 AU 37俱乐部贴里讨论,
然后有会员提议新建一个专门的来讨论而建立的。由于美国一些大的经销商有现货,所以陆续有琴友前去试琴,然后回来反馈意见和想法,
普遍的评论就是音色确实有独到之处,而这里面很多用户是手持D28 AU VTS或者Non-VTS版本的,以及各种老琴的,然后这些用户也有不少人开始陆续购入,
要知道,美国人里面能掏钱买这个价格琴的用户,基本都是40+至60+的人,而且经济条件非常好,要知道绝大部分老美是没什么积蓄的,能拿出来这么一笔钱,哪怕是贷款,也是要一定经济实力的,更何况他们往往不是只买一把琴,另外算算他们的年龄就知道,他们年轻时候,基本都是听着各种吉他手,吉他大师,使用30年代的Martin在舞台上,唱片里演奏的,所以,这对于他们来说,有相当大的情怀和曾经的经典音色回响在脑中的加成,对于做旧这一块,其实并没有特别多的人讨论,或者说觉得这是一个巨大的卖点,更多的是出于音色和外观的整体统一带来的感觉,由于好评比较多,当然,谁买了琴会说自己的琴不好呢,夸的总是多,加上蜜月期,怎么都觉着好,不过,这是一般的心态,在美国,即使这个价格的琴,买了不满意,很多店铺是支持7天,14天,甚至1个月无条件退换的,这就导致,并不会有人买了怕砸手上就一个劲的说好,从这个角度来说,这个版本的琴,受到的评价,绝大部分都是中肯和可以信任的,当然,前提是,你得是喜欢这个类型音色的玩家,就像吃菜一样,你喜欢川菜,我们讨论的就是川菜,那你自然可以相信我们的评价,如果你喜欢的是西餐,那我们的意见就没有什么参考价值了。我觉得这一点是一个比较重要的评价标准,不过似乎大陆的玩家都比较喜欢狂拽酷霸屌,我的琴,就是能灭你的琴,如果灭不掉,我就痛苦不堪,我的琴,必须是全能的,万能的,什么风格都行,什么音色都碾压,什么曲目都能驾驭,上手就是惊艳,惊艳完了还耐听,耐听完了还保值甚至升值,出2手别人都得求着我加价卖。这一点在老美这边不怎么常见,因为普遍都拥有很多把琴,哪把琴干什么都很明确,追求的是一个很小范围内的更佳。